Posted by realtrucker (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 5:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Why is the Andalusia Star printing this letter AGAIN? It was so full of lies the first time it was printed and it sure hasn't improved any with the second printing.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 7:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

realtrucker: YOU ARE SO RIGHT. It's amazing to me that Ms Tolbert has it all figured out and the ones attempting to have it shoved down our throats, don't even how it's going to work themselves other than,give them total control over our lives! I guess the Star figures if people read her fantasy long enough, maybe it will come true. If her fantasy ever does come true, it will turn out to be a horror story, that all of us will wished we had never heard

Posted by william99 (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The government thinks American people are so gullible!
The Obama administration is trying to ram this down our throats so fast we will all be gagging for decades to come. There is NO money to pay for this and our grandchildren and further will be paying for this for the rest of their lives. Government should not be in the healthcare business--look at Medicare, Veterans Health Care, Social Security--they can't run anything right! Not to mention the mandated funding for abortions, "end of life" consultations for everyone over 65 to determine whether the health care needed is "cost-effective" or not. This socialist government is trying to kill off the unborn and the elderly through this bill. Obama has been lying to us ever since this came out. He has been caught in these lies but the liberal media will not publish it. Our representatives do not even know what is in this bill nor do they understand it. This bill will take away states' rights to make their own decisions and make big government even bigger. They think if they push this through fast enough, no one will really know what is going on until it is too late.
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

Posted by ToldYouSo (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 9:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Agreed. Something else we're misled on is the fact that there are at least 5 (FIVE) different "Healthcare bills" being proposed in Congress. Which one is she quoting from??? My info came from watching PBS television last night wherein two reporters (one from the Montgomery Advertiser and another from the Mobile Press-Register) made this astonishing statement, as fact, and no one disagreed. So, if they know it and report it, why do we not know it and does Ms. Tolbert know of it??? Just what IS her agenda???

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 10:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ToldYouSo: I could be wrong, but I think she wants free everything and for working Americans to send her a check every month. If that is true, she doesn't understand that nothing is free. She may get it for nothing, but it will cost you and me!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ms Tolbert can attempt to repackage her interpretation of Health Care reform any way she chooses. However, my questions remain because no one has been able to answer them with any knowledge and accuracy!
1. Specifically how are seniors helped with Part D?
2. Why are 1700 households in Alabama being discriminated against and forced to pay for 91,000 uninsured Alabamians?
3. How are two bankrupt systems, Medicare and Medicaid able to fund a trillion dollar health care reform bill?
4. Where does it say, in print, there will be no deficit spending?
5. Why are 4.5 million Alabamians having their insurance system turned upside down because of 100,000 uninsured?
6. Do we want a free spending gov't accessing our bank accounts?
To state that there will be no deficit spending to fund Obama's "Hell-Care" bill is absolutely ludicrous! Such a statement compromises the legitimacy of ones true understanding of the issue! Even Obama has acknowledged that his original guesstimate of deficit spending over the next 10 years is off by $2 TRILLION! Instead of $7 TRILLION it is now $9 TRILLION! So, by gov't standards the actual figure is probably around $18 Trillion (remember the $1K hammer and the $2100 toilet seat?). The American public is way too savvy to buy this regurgitative hogwash! Don't pee on my leg and try to tell me it is only rain.Ms Tolbert's explanations of how health care reform will work, is like a sieve because it has so many holes! If the Obama administration can not manage the "Cash for Clunkers", how in the world can he manage intricate Health Care reform?

Posted by MoreCowBell (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It's not about everyone having health care, it's about controlling every aspect of your life.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

MoreCowBell: You are on target as are all the other posters! The answers to health care reform can not come forth, because the true agenda is not what we are being told!

Posted by bkjsu65 (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 12:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Most of you must listen to FOX news or Rush Limbaugh.

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 12:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm going to post a top ten of the reasons why folks are for or against the health care bill. Let me say that I have absolutely no idea what is in the health care bill, because I haven't read the 300 page document of any of the bills that are churning around in congress at the moment.

I do think insurance companies are a scam. They all work on probability very much like the casinos in Vegas. The majority of people will pay in more than they ever get out of the insurance company, whether it be from the insured's own bank account or the account of their employer. This is by their own design, as they are profit oriented. The folks that they know they will lose money on, they simply refuse to provide insurance for them.

Healthcare reform is such a personal subject. It's people's lives that you are talking about. One's health is worth more than all the world's money combined. This carries on through religious beliefs and philisophical standings. Thus the reason for the increase in attendance of the town hall meetings. I often thought I could have been a Dr. I think I had the intelligence. I don't think I could take the emotional aspect of it however. Knowing that if I made a mistake, it could cost someone their life.

The top 10 lists are vague, and cover several things in 1 posting. See if anyone agrees or disagrees with them.

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Top 10 reasons against health care reform. (in no particular order)

10. This is going to cost me money.
9. This is going to cause economic downturn.
8. This is going to cost me a lot of money.
7. The government will pay for abortions.
6. The current workforce will have to pay for illegal immigrant healthcare.
5. The current workforce will have to pay for lazy people's healthcare.
4. The quality of healthcare and the wait for healthcare will be worse because were stretching the doctors too thin.
3. When we take the profit out, no one will invest in the next "ground -breaking" drug or procedure.
2. The government can't run anything right, much less health insurance.
1. The government controls too much already.

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 12:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Top 10 reasons for health care reform. (in no particular order)

10. This will save me money.
9. This will help the economy.
8. This will save me a lot of money.
7. The people who are well off financially will pay for the bulk of this.
6. Everyone will be insured, so hospitals will charge less, having received payments for all services rendered.
5. Folks with pre-existing health problems will be able to get insurance.
4. The quality of health care will be better because the bill will be paid for every patient.
3. We need to take the greed out of healthcare.
2. The government already runs Medicare, and Veterans insurance with no problem.
1. It's the task of government to insure everyone has healthcare.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

purelogic: Suppose we have the following tenets of a health care reform bill, in no particular order;
1. All health care coverage is portable.
2.Insurance companies are not allowed to drop individual coverage in the event of catastrophic illness.
3. Uninsurability for pre-existing conditions is no longer an option for the insurance companies.
4.Everyone pays for health care.
5. Develop 3 plans from which to choose: How about the following..........

Option1: $500 annual family enrollment fee and $75.00 monthly premium. No deductible, $25 co-pay. Choose your doctor. All prescriptions $7.

Option2: No enrollment fee, $50 monthly premium, $150 deductible each family member, Co-pay 20% for services, $3000 catastrophic cap per family. Choose your doctor. Prescriptions $12.

Option 3: No enrollment fee, $30 monthly premium, $200 deductible each family member, Co-pay 25% for services, $2000 catastrophic cap. Choose your doctor. Prescriptions $15.
If you are receiving Medicare/Medicaid, the only thing you pay is a monthly premium of $150 and all prescriptions are $5

6. Illegal immigrants are ineligible to receive free health care in America. refer to #4
7. Revamp the archaic rules regarding name brand drugs vs generic and lower costs of all prescriptions.
8. Analyze the actual costs for CT, MRI, etc. and set reasonable cap.
9. Gov't drops the pretense that health care coverage is a "right".
10. Gov't stays out of ANY and ALL decisions regarding who gets what type of tests, care, surgeries or counseling at any time in their life!
We have the tax dollars already in Washington to fund a reasonable health care plan. The problem is the pork barrel politics and the stupidity of the politicians coupled with special interest groups like drug companies and insurance companies! Sounds logical to me!

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Actually, I am listening to Obama himself. He has said he has not read any of the bills. He has said it will result in a huge deficit. He has said that illegals will get the same treatment as citizens because it is the right thing to do. I'd rather listen to any conservative than listen to Chris Matthews talk about the shiver of excitement running up his leg when he hears Obama speak. And while I'm on the subject of Obama speaking... why in the world is the POTUS using such juvenile language as "wee weed up"? Was he referring to his teen years in Hawaii? Was he making fun of the all important health care reform? Making fun of urologists? Or just continuing to be the incompetent community organizer he truly is? Maybe he just needs to take his blankie and go nighty-night.

Let me see if I can answer one of the questions asked by LoyalAmerican.
Question #2: It isn't discrimination; its being fair. We must have a level playing field, don't you see? It is not fair for some to be born with more intellectual ability, or to work harder, or to take risks starting businesses, etc. and become more financially successful. No, no, no! The government must take from those selfish people and give it to others. Our all powerful government can't allow those successful people to use their money to buy products, or to grow businesses so they can hire more employees, or heaven forbid, give more to charities to help those who really need it. Control, control, control!!!
For those of you supporting Obama's health care garbage, I suggest you read about Barbara Wagner from Oregon. Briefly, the state run health care system denied her a cancer drug that was recommended by her oncologist but offered to pay for hospice care or assisted suicide drugs. How compassionate.

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 3:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks to the Andalusia Star News for printing this Letter again. The facts about the need for health care reform need to aired. Ms. Tolbert's letter lays out the facts in a very objective and intelligent way.

What is sad is that the people who have bought the lies of Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and other right-wing shills are the very ones who need health care reform the most. I would love to hear the kind of health coverage LoyalAmerican and her family have (VA? Medicare? Private Insurance?) or rgodwin and his family have (Medicaid? Uninsured? Glass Jar at the Checkout Counter of the Convenience Store?), and whether these coverages are meeting their needs, rather than this mindless repeating of scare words like "socialism," "communism," "death panels."

Purelogic...you are getting there. I think you have uncovered the root of the problem ("pork barrel politics and the stupidity of the politicians coupled with special interest groups like drug companies and insurance companies"), but the question is how do we fix it? Our political system throws up innumerable roadblocks to progressive legislation - every provision of a bill must be agreed to by both Houses of Congress and the President must agree to sign it; a bill must have the approval of the committees to which it has been assigned in order to reach the Senate floor, and there must be a super majority of 60 Senators voting to close off debate in order to prevent a filibuster. Only so often are all of these stars aligned. It happened in 1935 and in 1964/1965, and the election of 2008 presented us again with this opportunity. Today may be the last opportunity we have in our lifetimes to get this right.

Posted by kathystephens (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 3:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am against this health care bill. Why should I or anyone else pay for someone elses insurance. The only ones in this country hurting are the children and the elderly. I think they have a program for the kids their parents have to sign them up for it. Medicare is not enough for the elderly. If this bill passes the employers that have insurance will start dumping their employees into the public option and save their money. Why wouldn't they? If you look around the ones that can't afford insurance: what are they driving, have gold or silver around their necks, have whipptodo rims on their car. Is it that they can't afford or choose to spend their money else where? Why should hard working people pay for someone to sit back on their _ _ _ and won't work. Why should hard working people pay for someone else while they are sitting back doing drugs and getting high off of whatever it is they use. People should get their house in order and TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS and quit depending on everyone else to do it for them. I also say drug test people on welfare and food stamps. If they fail they either get out of the program of go to rehab and get a job. Like I said before the children and the elderly are the ones really hurting over this mess. That is my opinion.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon: I have no problem with Ms Tolbert having a re-print of her position. Likewise, I do not expect criticism when I repeat my opinion. Why is it beneficial for you to know the type of health care of others? What is your point? Seriously, how does that figure into the mix? I listed 3 options for health care coverage. I would love to see you do the same. That way, we are able to see exactly what others are looking for, then we can come up with a better prepared solution! What you consider roadblocks to progressive legislation, is in fact democracy at work. It is not star alignment that gets legislation passed. It is passed when politicians do what is right for all people in America and not just for themselves or special interest groups! You are correct when you say, "Today may be the last opportunity we have in our lifetimes to get this right." That is precisely why the high speed democrats need to slow down, take several deep breaths and develop a bipartisan bill that is right for every American.
Additionally, please reread my post and I think you will discover that it is I, not purelogic, who addresses pork barrel politics. See, you and I can agree on something!

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For the record, although I didn't post it, I'm not too fond of piggy drum politics myself!

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Another brilliant post by LoyalAmerican (2:03)

The New Deal and the Second New Deal contained several programs that were ruled to be unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. I'm personally thrilled that I have been forced to pay into the Social Security system that will most likely be bankrupt before I retire.
If Obama's plan is the answer, why won't he stand up (with or without his tele-prompter) and tell Americans that his family will absolutely participate? He will not say this even when specifically asked the question. Members of Congress who are supporting this plan should do the same. Again, it is the same "good for thee, but not for me".
I have read the posts on this thread and do not see where anyone has used the words "socialism", "communism" or "death panels". Would someone please site specific post times for easy reference?
As far difficulty with aligning the stars, it seems to work when Congress wants to vote themselves a raise, ensure that they get their salaries for the rest of their lives (now that's really looking out for regular folks struggling to survive on their measly social security checks, thanks New Deal), vote to buy themselves a fleet of new jets, and on and on. In many respects, there is no difference in Democrats and Republicans. And speaking of politicians and deals with drug companies, what about Obama's deal with Pharma for about 90 billion? Surely, you don't want us to believe that this huge company is doing this out of compassion, do you? Could it be that Pharma expects to get something in return if Obama's health care is passed? Seems I read something about the deal being contingent upon his health care bill being rammed down the throats of Amerians.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

kathystephens: You hit the nail on the head! I spoke with a senior citizen a few months back regarding health care. This 85 year old lives on $780 Social Security and pays $168 monthly for Medicare supplemental coverage. You are right, setting priorities is what it is all about!

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: I actually love your proposal. It's got my vote!

Do you think it would bankrupt the private insurance companies?

Estragon, roadblocks to bill passes into law, fillibusters, and even pork barrels, are just all in the grand scheme of democracy. Is it any wonder why politics is often played like a game?

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 4:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WATideFan,

Must be a sleepless day in Seattle.

I'm getting rather fond of LoyalAmerican, a rather formidable opponent. However, her post wasn't brilliant, it was inaccurate. For example:
"LoyalAmerican: Why are 4.5 million Alabamians having their insurance system turned upside down because of 100,000 uninsured?"
Ms. Tolbert, however, was referring to the residents of Congressional District 2. The total number of residents in D2 are estimated to be 647,000. Of these, 110,000 (or 17%) have no health insurance. That is not a statistic that any of us should be proud of, nor is it a statistic of a healthy society. We (those with insurance and taxpayers) already pay for the health care for these uninsureds, only we do so in a very expensive and inefficient way.

The comments by KathyStephens about gold and silver chains and "whipptodo rims" on their cars seemed to me to be borderline racist. Scape goating a segment of our population isn't the answer - we have a real societal problem here and it needs to be addressed.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 4:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: Thanks. It is a cosmic phenomenon when the politicians decide they want a raise! They have no problem, whatsoever, coming together, with civility, to vote themselves a raise! Incidentally, it passes posthaste!! Have you EVER had an employee TELL you how much their raise would be and when it would become effective? That is exactly what the pols in DC do to us, their employers! Any pay raise for politicians should only be granted through a national referendum every 8 years. All they should get is an annual COLA, same amount as civil service! We should demand that all politicians MUST have the same health care plan as we, the people!! No ifs, ands, or buts!

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 5:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"We should demand that all politicians MUST have the same health care plan as we, the people!!"

On this, LoyalAmerican, we are finally in total agreement about something.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 5:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon: The entire picture must be addressed not only a segment. A health care reform bill will not service only Alabama Congressional District 2. It will service the entire nation. We can easily get derailed on percentages, numbers, etc. So, using Ms Tolbert's numbers, why am I expected to contribute funds to insure ONE HUNDRED TEN THOUSAND uninsured in Congressional Dist.2? Why are those 110,000 not insured? That is a pivotal question and must be answered.

Please address why you consider kathystephens post "borderline racist"? I am intrigued.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon: Are we in the twilight zone? You, agree with me?This is beyond scary! However it does prove that when people choose to talk, rather than batter, common ground can be found!

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 6:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon and LoyalAmerican:

There will come a day when the lion will lay down with the lamb. The dog will shake the mailman's hand. The truck driver and the the dispatcher will once again be friends. The cat and the mouse will play as friends.

Shoot, perhaps even the ex-spouses will get along!

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 6:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Catching Wild Hogs

There was a chemistry professor in a large college that had some exchange students in the class. One day while the class was in the lab, the Professor noticed one young man, an exchange student, who kept rubbing his back and stretching as if his back hurt.

The professor asked the young man what was the matter. The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country's government and install a new communist regime.

In the midst of his story, he looked at the professor and asked a strange question. He asked:

"Do you know how to catch wild pigs?"

The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line. The young man said that it was no joke.

"You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come everyday to eat the free corn. When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming.

When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence. They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side.

The pigs, which are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat that free corn again.

You then slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught.

Soon they go back to eating the free corn . They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity."

The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening in America. The government keeps pushing us toward Communism/Socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tax cuts, tax exemptions, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. while we continually lose our freedoms, just a little at a time.

One should always remember two truths:

1) There is no such thing as a free lunch

2) and you can never hire someone to provide a service for you cheaper than you can do it yourself.

If you see that all of this wonderful government 'help' is a problem confronting the future of democracy in America , you might want to send this on to your friends.

If you think the free ride is essential to your way of life,
may God help you when the gate slams shut!

Posted by andalusiainquirer (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 6:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i once went to a seminar were the professor stated that the word seminar was formed from two words semi meaning half and nars meaning arse which means that we would be having a half-assed discussion.That seems to be an apt description of what has been said about Ms. Tolbert letter.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 7:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: RE: Wild Pigs. I appreciate your post. I recall reading this some time ago. It is written in such a way as to describe, precisely, how the gov't has corralled American citizens. Our nation has become one of entitlement seekers. The gov't keeps a large segment of society down and dependent. This segment of humanity is necessary for the politicians to maintain their power. It all reduces down to power and power alone. If these politicians cared one iota for their fellow Americans, all this in-fighting would cease and they would lend themselves to being part of a productive branch of gov't. House Speaker Pelosi should be muzzled and removed. She is the major stumbling block for anything worthwhile coming from the House Chamber. Serving in gov't should not be a lifetime career option! Three terms and you are out of there! Someone said we have created 535 little kingdoms in our legislative branch. No truer words have ever been spoken! I wish every 10 to 60 year old in America, could take a trip to the former eastern bloc countries under communist rule after WWII and experience the assault felt in their gut. Just seeing the remnants of such government is shocking to your senses. Housing areas are row after row of sameness. No color, no smiles, no joy, no talking; an eerie silence in the cities years after the Berlin Wall fell. Gov't control is not what we want, on any level. All I want from my gov't is accountability and sensibility. I am more than capable of taking care of myself as is everyone reading this post. I do not accept my captivity! I will continue to argue against a left wing takeover of my gov't and show my prowess when I pull the lever in 2010 or fill in the arrow, whatever the case may be!
God Bless America!

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 8:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: all your posts are brilliant! That is my opinion and I'll stick to it.
I, too, want to know what kathystephens posted that is borderline racist. Estragon seems to be the one to immediately identify her words with a particular group.
After reading LoyalAmerican's post of 7:26 I was reminded of a conversation I had last school year. Several of the students I taught last year are the children of legal immigrants from Russia. The day after the election one student told me that his father is terrified of what Obama will do to America. He said that their friends from Romania were also upset. Must have been something Obama said, huh?

I have no clue as to what kind of day it is in Seattle. I am still waiting for you, Estragon, to explain why you want to know personal information from conservative posters such as: college attended, how college was paid for, what kind of insurance they have, etc. I guess you'll have to wait until Obama sets up another snitch line before you can report all this information you are gathering.

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 8:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: Yes, I understand your wild pig story. I have always felt one side of the gate was slammed when we lost the right to choose whether or not we should wear a seat belt. Not that I think wearing a seat belt is not a good thing, it takes away from my freedom of what I think should be a personal choice. I would be the only affected party in the event of an accident, so why isn't it my choice?

I would like to see some kind of health care reform. I like LoyalAmerican's approach in the post at 2:03, but I don't think the insurance companies would stay above water with those plans. Something similar to this would be a favorable solution to me.

Posted by andalusiainquirer (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 9:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It is amusing to read the political babbling about how the liberals are taking over our country and pushing us toward Communism/Socialism. Ain't going to happen. This country has a republican form of government and operates on democratic principles. That has not changed in the last 213 years. No other country I know of has a system of government that is better than ours.

Too many in this discussion have been effected by the political nonsense propagated during the Reagan years, His little brainchild , David Stockman, put forth the notion that certain government program were entitlement, including Social Security. SS is not a free lunch - it is paid for by employees and employers. Yet we have been led to belive that entitlements for people are bad - but payments to and tax credits for big corporations are a good thing. Incidentally, within the last year Stockman was indicted for stock fraud.

i have never understood how people can write here about being such church going believers and bad mouth our goverment for helping those in need. Some here offer such hollowed words about our constitution but do not believe that our government should promote the general welfare of our citizens - all of them.

As for congressional pay raises, there is only one way for them to get a raise and that is for them to vote for one. There is no record of a president vetoing a raise for congress. The last few that they voted on came after a long time of not getting one. Go look it up. Also Washington , DC and its suburbs has about the highest cost of living in the country and real estate cost are the highest you will find and going higher. Nobody in this discussion could afford to live there. By the way have any of you ever turned down a raise. Give me a break!

Most if not all of the so called experts that you see on cable news shows blathering about the evils of the president's health care plan are paid shills of insurance companies and Big Phama, So are the people stirring it up at town hall meetings.

It is probably to much to expect rgodwin and loyalamerican to listen to what is being said our president and those who work for him rather those who are paid to mislead us. The Sean Hannitys and Rush Limbaughs of this life are paid to confound and confuse us.

The last defense of political scoundrels is patriotism and they always come wrapped in a flag.

Posted by MoreCowBell (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 9:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Laying all party loyalties aside and/or our conservative or liberal views, I submit a question(s). Most of us feel that our current health care system could be improved. But, why would anyone trust the government to run 1/6th of the nations economy when they have bankrupted social security, bankrupted medicare, bankrupted medicade, bankrupted the post office, etc? These nuts (Dems and Repubs) have no experience in running a lemonade stand much less a real business. The free market, if left alone, will solve most of the problems. Reducing the restrictions so that all insurance companies can do business in all fifty states, would force insurance companies to compete for your business (and there are a lot of them). Couldn't the government offer insurance options to everyone just as they now do for their employees using existing insurance companies operating in the free market? You know the old "buying in mass" thing.

I am all for having a safety net for those who can't afford to pay for insurance themselves. The government already has medicade, etc. Why can't this be used to purchase insurance in the free market for these persons?

How about some tort reform? Hospitals and physicians must pay enormous amounts for malpractice insurance. Someone who knows more about this can correct me if needed but I have heard that some surgeons and OB docs pay as much as $100-$200K per year for this insurance. But for some reason, the president (nor any of our politicians for that matter), doesn't want tort reform in this legislation. Why?

My savior is not a politician.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 10:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

purelogic: I agree also that seat belts are a good idea as well as motorcycle helments when riding a motorcycle. I wear both, but like you my problem is when government takes that freedom of choice away from us. They make these laws and they may sound good, but each time they pass a law like these, we lose our freedom of choice.
I don't know myself what the best formula for health care reform is, but I do know that anything Obama and the democrat congress will come up with will be very bad for freedom loving Americans.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on August 22, 2009 at 10:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Very good points made by MoreCowBell.
Does any one really believe that the citizens speaking out against Obama's heath care plan at Town Hall meetings are paid by insurance companies? Give ME a break! It has been proven that one of the "doctors" speaking out in favor of government health care is not a doctor at all. If anyone is planting operatives, it is the democrats. That would be right in line with the teachings of Obama's mentor Alinsky. Those who are being paid to confound and confuse must be doing a good job. According to Zogby, Obama is losing the confidence of Americans (not that he ever had mine).
How many of the people Obama tapped to serve in some capacity, withdrew from consideration due to "tax problems"? It is a rather long list. But only republicans are criminals.
Earlier today, I was wondering to myself how long it would be before someone brought up church going believers. Eventually, it all goes to that topic. You know, all about how people who profess to believe but have hate filled hearts, are mean spirited, don't want our government to help those in need and so on. It actually took a little longer than I expected. Let's see how this discussion continues.

Posted by kathystephens (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 1:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Estreagon: I am still waiting to know how what I said is racist. I didn't know that gold and silver chains and whipptodo rims were only allowed to certain segments of our population. I thought anyone could get them that wanted them and could afford them. I stand by what I wrote. TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS first.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

andalusiainquirer: Before I delve into your post, I will repeat what I have said before, please listen/read carefully; I DO NOT WATCH NOR DO I LISTEN TO SEAN HANNITY OR RUSH LIMBAUGH. What I write, comes from within the confines of my mind. I am not some mindless creature who needs others to tell me, what I can conclude on my own. I know it is difficult for a liberal to believe that a conservative can be a free thinker. I take no marching orders from any radio or TV personality. I make up my mind, in my time, on my terms! I would be one of the most UNlikely to ever drink the Kool-aid!! Your first paragraph has one comment where we can agree. Our form of gov't, as framed by the US Constitution, is without a doubt the best on earth. Have you read the US Constitution? Read it and pay close attention to Article I sections 8, 9 and all the amendments. Then give thought to what is happening in America today. If, after doing this read & thinking, you still believe America is not in jeopardy, I hope you will reread and rethink the entire exercise! Evidence of socialism in America is overwhelming. Check out what ACLU is getting away with at this moment! Our right to bear arms is under attack, as is our freedom of speech! Our freedom of choice for health care may soon be gone. A senior class president,less than 70 miles from Andalusia, is denied her once in a lifetime opportunity to address her graduating class, simply because she is a Christian! Compliments ACLU! I would love to strap every lawyer for the ACLU into a fast moving vehicle, dash cam running, and have them face a cement wall coming at them at 90 miles per hour and see if they cry out God's name!
Entitlements are not bad IF you work for them! Don't expect me to pay for any freebies for an able bodied person. The gov't does not help, with a clean heart, those in need. There is an alternative motive. The gov't keeps broadcasting the corn, keeping the needy coming back, rather than TEACH them how to be self sufficient. The more self sufficient one becomes, the less they need the gov't! Less need of the gov't equates to less power for the politicians! Go figure! I will help anyone in need. But do not call me on your cell phone asking me for gas money for your Escalade or Navigator so you can make your appointment at the nail salon before you stop by the jewelry store to pick up the gift you ordered! Get the idea?
Also, I have NOT been paid one copper penny for my presence at any town hall meeting or tea party! YOU are the one listening to the sheeple! You call it "stirring up the town hall meetings" I call it DEMOCRACY!
I continue to believe an amendment to the Constitution requiring a national vote for congressional pay raises. We did not mean for the politicians to roost in DC. I could care less about the expenses they incur. If you don't like the costs, move on!
Considering your parting shot and last line of your post, you must not consider yourself a patriot. What a shame!

Posted by kathystephens (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 11:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: you go man/woman. I agree with you exspecially about the ACLU. Do you know that a coach and principal at Pace High School could loose their job and pensions because the principal asked the coach to say a word of prayer at a gathering? What happened to freedom of religion? Every religion has freedom but christanty on which this country was founded they want christanity to take a back seat to everyone elses. I still say GOD BLESS AMERCIA and everyone here.

Posted by andalusiainquirer (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Loyal American, you may not listen to Sean or Rush, so tell us where you do get your information from. You may may think that you are doing your own thinking in your own mind but you are getting information from somewhere. Otherwise you would not be able to rant about the ACLU. (hey I don't always agree with them either) But they are the price we pay for the freedom we have and the system of law and courts that we have. Limiting the young woman's graduation address due to the establishment of religion clause clearly violated her free speach rights which is WRONG. What she had wanted to say about her faith can be found in many, if not all. of presidential inaugural addresses. For a court to agree with the ACLU that she would be wrong and 44 presidents were ok would violate the equal protection clause that the same ACLU holds to be so dear to them!

One of the problems with people like loyal american is they only see things in black or white while there is is a lot of gray in between. I don't think things always have to either or. Sometimes the answer is both/and.

The problem in the health care debate is that we cannot speak civilly about this matter because of the loud overbearing ranting about things that are not even in the proposals - like death panels, abortions and care for illegal aliens.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 12:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MoreCowBell: Your questions and opinions resonate with the majority! The only thing that differs for me is paying for insurance for someone else. I want to know why they can not pay for their coverage. Medicaid covers just about everything for an indigent person. Beef up Medicaid. Perhaps welfare money should go to pay for insurance coverage rather than giving automatic stipends for every child produced by an unwed (or wedded for that matter) mother. I spoke with a local grandmother recently who is fed up with her daughter's behavior. This 35 year old daughter has produced 6 children, never been married and her only source of income is welfare. The 68 year old grandmother is raising all 6 children, daughter lives with new boyfriend and number 7 will probably be coming at some point in the future! My question is WHY is this 35 year old woman allowed to get away with such abuse of the system? If she has the wherewithal to birth 6 children, she is capable of waiting tables, answering phones, working at a department store, or whatever. My tax dollars should not go for this woman or anyone remotely parallel to her.

The health care options I listed previously are straight from Tricare's handbook with a little tweaking on my part. Tricare is for active duty and retired military. However, why can't this same program be offered to everyone with the understanding everyone else has higher co-pays and monthly premiums? I have never had a problem with Tricare. I choose my doctor, hospital and where any tests will be conducted. It is a good system.

Reason for lack of Tort reform? It is called the "greasy palm syndrome" It is known to infect almost 100% of politicians and all special interest groups. The symptoms are; malaise, self-centeredness, grandiosity, brown eyes due to intestinal backup, out of touch with reality, and inability to remember what is said, when, where, how and to whom! Thank goodness most sufferers are quarantined within the beltway in Washington DC!!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

andalusiainquirer: Read the amendments to the Constitution then get back with me!

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 12:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LA, sounds like the "right" thing to do would be for the tax dollars to go to the Grandmother and the 6 children, and not the mother who isn't raising them! But we are not China, so we don't limit children to 1 birth and that's it.

That's the problem with government helping the needy. Anytime the government helps the needy, there are some that get helped, and there are others that just abuse the system for their personal gain. People who wouldn't steal from their fellow man or ask anyone for anything, somehow don't think twice about taking advantage of the government.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 1:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

purelogic: It is not about limiting births, it is about responsibility.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 2:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

andalusiainquirer: have you read the 1000+ pages of the proposed healthcare reform? I haven't. If you haven't either, how do you know what is and what is not in the reform? The exact wording to pay for something with tax dollars doesn't have to be in place for a later interpretation to allow for such expenditures. I do know that Obama is in a mutual admiration society with Planned Parenthood. I do know the he told a group of PP members (including PP president Cecile Richards) that he would sign FOCA immediately when elected. I also know Obama said that healthcare should be provided to illegals because it is the right thing to do. He later tried to back track as he usually does by saying that wasn't what he meant.
I know that as a liberal you get information from no other source. Your opinions are formed with only your original thoughts. Go out on a limb, and do a little research. Read investigative reports from newspapers about what is happening to hospitals forced by a federal law to give ER care to illegals. I suggest you start with an article in the Las Vegas Review-Journal on University Medical Center. No, I do not support allowing people with advanced renal failure to die. I just think Mexico should pay for the treatment of these Mexican Nationals. If you read the article you will find out that these hospitals are not being reimbursed for these enormous costs. So at this time tax money is not being directly funneled to these hospitals. The hospitals are going bankrupt. The costs of healthcare is going up. We wonder why a tylenol tablet is billed at 45 dollars!
Before any healthcare reform becomes law, all involved must know with certainty what is and isn't in the reform. There is no need to push any reform without careful consideration.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: Love your post and agree with every word!

Posted by andalusiainquirer (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 5:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Loyalamerican is good at proving what a biased, right-wing, loudmouthed, nut case that he is and that his incapable of having an intelligent conversation. He is so full talking points from the republican spin machine that overloads every thing he posts hyperbolic jibberish that he makes little real sense. He is wholly incapable of staying on topic.

He loves to rant about illegal aliens. The fact is we are a nations of immigrants - even so-called Native Americans are immigrants too. But being the racist that he is, loyalamerican loves to bash them Mexicans. Since he claims to be so smart, maybe he can google up the Hii-Burton Act which says the every hospital built with Hill-Burton funds has to treat any body and evewrybody that walks in to the emergency room - American citizens, illegals, foreign visitors, everybody.

Loyalamerican is so bitter that he must surely drink vinegar with his breakfast.

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 5:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What may I ask has the Pace H.S. case have to do with health care reform? By the way, here are the facts in the Pace H.S. prayer case:
On behalf of 2 students at the high school, the ACLU sued the Santa Rosa County, Florida District School Board and Pace High School principal Frank Lay for promoting religion and interjecting prayer in a public school. The District School Board admitted liability and agreed to stop the practice. The federal judge assigned to the case, Hon. Casey Rodgers, an appointee of George W. Bush, entered a temporary restraining order while the parties crafted a written settlement agreement. After the restraining order was entered, the principal of Pace H.S. had the athletic director say a prayer (blessing) at a school luncheon. Both the principal and athletic director are now facing criminal contempt charges, with a hearing scheduled for Sept. 17, 2009, for violating the Court's order. They may also be facing disciplinary action from the School Board for defying the Board's agreement to stop the practice of promoting religion in the public school. http://www.pnj.com/article/20090821/NEWS...

Since 1962, with the decision of the U. S. Supreme Court in Engel v. Vitale, the practice of prayer in public schools has been unconstitutional. When a lower court enters an order, based on long-standing settled law (and one to which the School Board had agreed to) and 2 individuals take it upon themselves to violate that order, what do you think the consequences should be? What about the notion that we live in a country of laws? How else are laws enforced when people refuse to obey judicial orders?

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 6:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

andalusiainquirer: FYI: I am female. I will spar with you later........

Posted by andalusiainquirer (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 6:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

1. I hereby amend my last post whereby he becomes she. My apologies.
2. I have read the amendments. What's your point.
3. I stand by my earlier point about Pace HS. The Supreme Court decision olny nullified all state las that require saying a prayer and reading Bible every morning. I disagree that saying grace over a meal constitutes an establishment of religion.
4. A friend sent this to me: "I want all of these anti-socialism Republicans to stop using my socialized resources. I want them to STOP using my Medicare, my Social Security, and my VA Healthcare. I want them to get off my highways, get off my bridges, and stay out of my forests, parks, and museums. I want them to stop fishing MY socialized fish planted there by fish and game wardens, and I want them to stop sending their children to MY socialized schools and public universities. I don't want to see them putting their dirty little hands all over my books in my fine, socialized libraries. While they're at it, they can just turn off their water, electricity, and gas, and take down those mailboxes, too. And stop calling my police officers and firefighters!!! We pay our
taxes proudly in this house and we don't take kindly to dragging along a bunch of whining, ungrateful babies along behind us."

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 7:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

andalusiainquirer: Folks beliefs', as yours are, are far more rooted than any slick talk show host or news media they listened to last week. The opinion of most folks are inherited from parents and guardians and formed little by little throughout their entire lives. Both sides have to get information from some kind of source, or else no one would no anything! No person is an island, and it's tough in today's world to find a truly unbiased view that can see the whole picture. You can't start to convince me that your source of information is completely neutral, because I don't even think that's possible. There are sources however, where information is less biased one way or the other.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 7:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

According to HRSA (07/02/09) Hill-Burton stopped providing funds in 1997. There are currently 204 facilities obligated to provide free or reduced-cost health care. There are no residency restrictions. Alabama has 4 such facilities. Six states have no obligated facilities- Nevada is one of those six.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 8:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

andalusiainquirer: I realize you have only been part of this blog since Aug. 13, 2009. Therefore, I would like to invite you to click onto my user name (found after the words Posted by) and read previous posts I have made on this blog. Reading those posts will give you a brief glimmer of who I am as a citizen. After rereading your post at 5:28, then reading your 6:38 post; I have done a considerable amount of soul searching and determined that replying to your nonsense is not worth my time. Both posts, as listed above, indicate to me that you have difficulty getting your point across in a sane, intelligent manner. However, I do accept your apology for mistaking me for a man.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 9:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican : Thank you for you 8:15 post. I was hoping that it wasn't only me that was more confused or just lost after reading andalusiainquirer's post.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 9:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

andalusiainquirer: you are still kind of new to this blog, but you will learn as both conservatives and liberals on here have already learned, that LoyalAmerican can carry on an intelligent debate as well if not better than anyone you'll ever meet.
She is more informed than either you or I and she doesn't need talking points, when she has truth on her side. I try to keep up with all the freedom robbing attempts the left is attempting to inflict on our country, but there are so many coming from different directions, that it's impossible for one person to keep up with them all. The two I'm most concerned right now about, are government controlled health care and our second ammendment rights. If our constitution means anything to us as a nation, everything Obama and the liberal democrat congress are attempting should be defeated, because their policies are all in direct conflict with it. We Dare Defend Our Rights. God Bless America!

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 10:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: your 2:42 post was excellent.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 23, 2009 at 10:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

andalusiainquirer: you said in your 11:33am post that:

"The problem in the health care debate is that we cannot speak civilly about this matter because of the loud overbearing ranting about things that are not even in the proposals - like death panels, abortions and care for illegal aliens."

This left wing liberal congress would sell their own mothers for a democrat vote and if the bill does not specifically say that abortions and illegal aliens are not or will not be covered, then they will be. This was left out intentionally so that they could be covered. The death panels as you call them are in the bill unless that part has been removed.

Posted by Bluebelle51 (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 2:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Americans are dying!!!
Does anybody care about that? I have lost friends to corporate greed when their insurance chose not to cover their illness after years of paying premiums, I have lost family to late diagnosis because the tests that would have saved their lives if it had been affordable, wasn't available.
I have a pre-existing condition that prevents me from being insured (cancer survivor), my grand daughter is a 4 year old diabetic and will never have insurance. How many of YOUR freinds and relatives will fall into this list.
There is no secret conspiracy to kill aunt Millie, illegal aliens will not be covered, abortions aren't covered (laws on the books now prevent that)
Paying for it is easy, raise the FICA tax cap, currently at $100,000 (meaning that after you make $100,000 you no longer have to pay into it) to $250,000. This raises almost $700 billion.
Under the Bush administration, the wealthiest people (top 1 percent) got $1.7 trillion dollars in tax cuts, sunset that and not only have we paid for everything in the health reform bill but we have enough to pay down the debt incurred by the Iraq war as well.
Now can we have health care reform?

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 6:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Bluebelle51: I don't know of anyone who doesn't want health care reform, what we don't want is Obama care and taxpayers do already pay for abortions and I for one, would love for it to stop.

With every new federal budget comes a barrage of renewed attempts to fund the abortion industry.

One of the first bills introduced in the new Democrat-controlled Congress was the grossly misnamed "Prevention First Act" [S. 21 / H.R. 819]. Knowing full well that taxpayer-funded abortion is a huge political liability, pro-abortion forces in Congress have attempted to hoodwink voters by falsly claiming that this legislation is meant to prevent abortions.

In reality, this bill is nothing more than a shameful attempt to hand over a blank check to abortion providers like Planned Parenthood.

Among the outrageous provisions of the bill are:

*

An increase in funding under Title X, raising the taxpayers' tab to $700 MILLION in direct funding for abortion providers like Planned Parenthood in 2008 alone.
*

Direct taxpayer funding to pay for abortions obtained by Medicaid recipients.
*

Mandate that insurance companies cover abortion procedures, thus forcing policyholders to directly fund the killing of the unborn.
*

Penalization of doctors who follow their conscience and refuse to prescribe abortive drugs.
*

A $10 MILLION marketing campaign to promote the newest line of deadly abortive drugs paid for by taxpayers.

While its proponents falsely claim that the bill would prevent abortions, it specifically prohibits funding for programs that promote abstinence among teenagers.

Thus, the only such programs that would be permitted to receive federal funds are the variety promulgated by Planned Parenthood, which encourage and glamorize sex among teens. Such sex education increases promiscuity and, therefore, teen abortions.

NPLA members are mobilizing to defeat the so-called "Prevention First Act" and all other attempts to fund abortion with tax dollars.

Planned Parenthood has Already Received Over Two and a Half Billion Dollars From Taxpayers and Now Demands More

Abortion providers such as Planned Parenthood continue to receive millions of tax dollars every year under Title X, which subsidizes their overhead for promoting abortion as they divert more and more resources towards the killing of the unborn.

I found this info, by just Googling taxpayer paid abortions.

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 7:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Bluebelle51: We can't trust the private insurance companies to do the right thing, because they won't. If they can legally get out of it to save money, then that is exactly what they are going to do. Your experience has verified this fact.

The majority of Americans are happy with the way things are because the majority are fairly healthy. Healthy people don't need health insurance coverage. I wonder if some of the folks that so strongly oppose the bill had walked down the road in your shoes, would their take on it still remain the same.

Posted by hsr0601 (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 8:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Theme : The public health is a fundamental human right.

1. When the public health is also one of commodity like a house, we come to a tragic conclusion : As to for-profit business, the more ill patients get, the more profits they make.

2. Under the free market theory and the premise that the public health is also one of commodity like a house, if the demand decreases on a large scale, accordingly the price tends to reflect it, as in the case of house price, and it never happens for the price to spiral up. One step forward, in case the price is spiraling up, to be sure, the remaining clients should withdraw the contract or choose the other options. Sadly, no way-out other than the prohibitive ER is allowed in America. Therefore, the victims today and tomorrow deserve an overdue protection from non-profit Government.

3. When some part of our body is ailing seriously, we are going to lose competitiveness, equally, when some part of a nation is ailing servery, it is going to loose competitiveness, too.

4. Unlike the original financial concern over recovery from Catrina catastrophe, the recovery work is going smooth with no big problem, to my knowledge. The last thing to want would be for this health Catrina to be left untreated. And there is enough room for savings from the unsustainable wastes.

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 10:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The confetti of confusion that has rained down on Americans concerning health reform has no end, now it is "abortion funding." Let's get somethings understood, and then perhaps a rational debate can occur.

1. Under the health care reforms proposed, the government will not run health care. There is a difference between funding health care and providing health care. The proposed plans only deal with coverage for health care expenses - the funding part.

2. There will not be a government health insurance policy. The public option that is being proposed only provides a market place - an insurance exchange - where private health insurance policies will be offered. To gain entry into this exchange, insurance companies will have to meet certain requirements that prohibit coverage exclusions. Although the cost for these policies will be subsidized by the government, a person will still have a private health insurance policy.

3. Why, as some have asked, should the government subsidize health insurance for those who currently don't have access to coverage? The answer is simple. Our country pays on a per capita basis twice the amount of money for health care than any other country yet we rank only 37th in the world in health outcomes. Cost can not be contained and health outcomes improved unless we first cover everyone.

4. The cost of medical care for the uninsured is currently being paid by a phenomenon known as "cross subsidization." The uninsured who are unable to pay for health care can access the delivery system through the ER of hospitals when their conditions are emergent or critical. Treating them in this manner is expensive and haphazard. If these individuals were covered by insurance and could regularly see primary care physicians for preventive care, their health conditions would improve and the cost of treating them in the early stages of an illness is a lot less than when the condition becomes full blown.

5. Cross-subsidization occurs when hospitals have to shift the burden of uncompensated care to private insurance companies by raising rates. People with private health insurance may not realize it, but they are already paying for the uninsured's health care, in a back-door fashion.

Most of the bloggers on this blog who are opposing health care reform have no idea what they are talking about. Most of them appear to have a limited education and no experience in the business world. They are people reacting to ideas that they have been told are adverse to their cultural and religious beliefs, but which are in fact in their best interests.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The below link is to a letter written by a lady from Arizona that was read on Glenn Beck's show, I believe back on June 17th of this year. I know many of you may not like Glenn Beck, but he is a freedom loving American and every Democrat, Republican, independent, libertarian or whatever you call yourself should read this letter. I believe if you're honest, you will find yourself in agreement with what she had to say. It is a little long, but well worth the time it takes to read. God Bless America!

http://jaykeating.wordpress.com/category...

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I remember when county garbage service came to Covington County. Everyone had to get on the service for one reason because the Health Department said they had to do it. Another reason because it was cost effective for the garbage company to collect everyone's garbage, and not just the ones that actually wanted the service. This was in a way a loss of liberty to the folks in the county. You could no longer have a residence in the county (legally) and not have garbage service. The folks that have one sack of trash a week, pay the same thing as the folks that cram everything they can get into the trash can. In a way the former pays for a portion of the latter's garbage disposal. Some folks don't even take their can to the road each week, but the bill is always the same. This is the way it is done because it is more economically feasible to do it this way.

That's been nearly 20 years ago. Garbage is a much simpler system than health care, but the parallels are striking. Do we give up more libertys? Do we cover everyone to be more efficient, or is the inefficiency just begginning?

One thing is for certain, government health care or not, life is never fair.

Posted by details90 (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 12:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have to agree with morecowbell. Its really more about control than anything else.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

details90: it's all about control over you, me and every other American. I truly believe with every fiber of my being, that this is the most corrupt, power hungry group of America haters to ever have control of congress and the White House at the same time.

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Purelogic, you have raised an interesting and I think valid point with your garbage pickup analogy. At some level, we have to realize that the sum of us is no stronger or weaker than the least of us. Martin Luther King in his famous Letter from a Birmingham Jail put it this way:
"We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly."
The question that we struggle with is when do we allow people to struggle with the unfairness of life and when do we as a society step in and correct that unfairness? Very few people want a society where there is no individualism, as personal responsibility for own's actions and the right to personal autonomy are in some ways better than the alternative even though some unfairness results. But there are times when a people acting as a community decide that the "network of mutuality" is indeed "inescapable." We've done this with laws concerning child labor, lack of equal pay, unsafe workplaces, pollution of the environment, and, yes, garbage pickup. (Ever been to a country where there is no mandatory garbage up? I have, not a pretty sight). And, what about seat belt laws or helmets for motorcycle and bike riders? Searching for the right balance between individual freedoms and the need for collective action is not easy and is something with which we will always struggle. We should conduct this search, however, with reason and intelligence, not unclear thinking or cultural passions that have been confused by demagoguery.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 2:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There is a raving lunatic running loose on the blog topic site "Obama depiction poses questions" that calls himself or herself scherflaw.

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 3:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We need health care reform now, because in the end, this isn’t about politics. This is about people’s lives and livelihoods. Real people with real stories that matter. It is really that simple. The US is the only major industrialized country that does not provide regular healthcare to all its citizens. Instead, they are required to provide for themselves - and 44 million people can't afford the insurance. As a result, 18,000 US citizens die every year needlessly, because they can't access the care they require. These numbers are debatable but close similarities can be verified with numerous sources. What do we care about the most in this country? I care about people. In the spirit of analogies, I think health care reform is like preventive maintenence: initial outlay of money that we really can't afford, but the alternative is later on it will in up being even more costly to do nothing.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 3:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iamabookworm: I am serious when I say that I want health reform also, but not the kind Obama and his administration is peddling. I know you've heard this before but it is still true. How can we expect a bunch who can't even run cash for clunkers to run what amounts to one 6th of or nations economy in a productive manner. It's true that other nations do provide health care for their citizens and do a terrible job in the process according to many that have to use it. They are talking about adding somewhere between 40 to 60 million new people to the health care system with no new doctors or nurses. What kind of health care will anyone have then? All the illegals in our country are a drain on our health care system and there are untold millions that could be going to our elderly and needy that are being spent on people who are illegally in our country. I'm no racist, but illegal means illegal and they should not be here at all, much less get a free ride.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Would someone please post the numerous sources documenting that 44+ million people are uninsured because they can't afford it?

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 4:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon: It's true, no man is an island. Even the billionaire's need the garbage man, rock stars are nothing without the fans, etc. Not many in today's time are truly self-sufficient. If you own a car, TV, radio, telephone, cellphone, or use toliet paper, someone else had a hand in it. If you were able to market a product that made you filthy rich, it was other people buying the product that revealed its true value. If I were selling bricks, how much value would they be without a road to deliver them on?

Perhaps as a part of health care reform we need to tax sugars, trans fat and saturated fats as luxury items, instead of putting them on the dollar menu at McD's. This would certainly be prevenative maintenance! What about tax breaks for gym memberships and home gyms, and any type of sport activities that are participated( golfing in a golf cart would not count).

I'm rambling now, but no matter how good the care, or how good the maintenance, sooner or later the body crashes, whether it be the billionaire or the garbage man.

I'm reminded of the movie "Titanic". The folks in raft don't want the folks in the freezing water to get in their boat. "Get away from our boat, you're going to drown us all!" Maybe that's not the case. Just a thought. Again I'm just rambling...

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 4:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: I don't believe anyone can document it with facts. They use people who don't have it including illegals. Many younger people don't have health insurance by choice because they are healthy and see it as a waste of money. Many people who they say can't afford it, have cell phones, multiple cars and many other things that truly poor people don't have. There are many things I'd like to have that I don't, but I prioritize so that I can have the things I need. I know that there are people who truly need help and my tax dollars should go to help these people if the ones in charge of our tax dollars do their jobs.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: You are correct. But because those of us who oppose Obama's plan have been called uneducated (among other things), I will wait patiently for supporters to provide me with the documentation. After all, I really do desire to learn. So far the only sound I hear is crickets chirping. But its early yet.
Obviously, my research must be incorrect since I haven't found stats that substantiate what the educated Obama supporters state as fact. Again, I just want to be educated.

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 5:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Come on, I said the numbers are debatable. New census reports will be out in September. The 45.7 million uninsured cited by Obama and others comes from the Census Bureau’s annual Current Population Survey for 2007. How many people have lost jobs since then whose health insurance was tied to those jobs? Here is a question- of the people who post regularly to this forum, who has what type of insurance and is it through your employer? I'll go first- BCBS/Fepblue here and it is through my employer. Here is another question- How many of you know someone personally who is without health insurance? I can name at least a half a dozen that I know personally and many more than that are friend of a friend, most of these are people who have lost their insurance due to job loss. How many of you know someone who is in danger of losing their health insurance due to sky rocketing premiums? I know some of those people too. Maybe you do too but are unaware of their hardships because many people are proud and do not air their troubles to others. I guess I just have a kind face that invites people to tell me their problems, :-)

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 6:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iamabookworm: I am fortunate enough at this time to have coverage through my employer. We have BCBS. It hasn't always been this way. I've been laid off at times and we've had to find insurance that didn't cover nearly as much, but it would have saved us if something catastrophic had happened. I've never been out of work long at a time and the biggest reason for that is because I'm willing to work. I've worked for a lot less at times just to feed my family. There were times we really could have used help, but we like most hard working Americans are proud and I believe in doing whatever it takes as long as it is honest to make a living. I don't think there is anything wrong with accepting help if someone truly needs it, but I've always been able to look around and see someone else that needed it worse, so we never took it. I understand that there are people that are hurting, but government controlled anything is not the answer, but many times the problem. If these idiotic policies continue, it will get much worse for many more people and we will see things we've never dreamed of. I want health care reform as much as anyone, but I'll continue to say that Obama care is not the answer even if it's me and my family that is uninsured. I do not believe in giving government one ounce more power than they have right now. We need to be reclaiming our country and putting government back in it's rightful place.

Posted by Bluebelle51 (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 6:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: Aren't you lucky that nothing has ever happened like heart disease or cancer, then you or the afflicted family member would instantly become UN insurable!
Now can we have health care reform?

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 6:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bluebelle51: Not Obamacare, I'd rather die myself uninsured, than see Americans lose freedoms due to a corrupt government.

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 7:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sure we need to reclaim our country, from corporate interests! That's who's running the government anyway and that goes for the R's as well as many of the D's. Once we get health care reform passed I think election reform should be on everyone's minds. I read that there are six lobbyists for each of the 535 members of the House and Senate. More than 1,500 organizations have health-care lobbyists, and about three more are signing up each day. Every one of the 10 biggest lobbying firms by revenue is involved in an effort that could affect 17 percent of the U.S. economy. That is our problem in a nutshell!!! Who is lobbying for us?

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 7:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There is absolutely no way 45.7 million people are uninsured because they can't afford insurance. Those numbers (if they are even close) include those who are uninsured for any reason. Any reason! I happen to know some 20 somethings who chose to not participate in the health insurance provided by their employers. They would rather spend their contributions on other things. They, therefore, are uninsured. One of them told me that if he participated he might not be able afford his BMW. Many are uninsured for a period of time after changing jobs (has happened to me).
After reading many of these posts again, it seems to me that those supporting Obama's plan have superior intelligence and are the best educated people. Since everyone always says that education is the way to success, they must make the most money. Not that money is the only indicator of success. But anyway, why don't those highly educated, super intelligent people join with the really rich liberals (George Soros, Bill Gates, Ophra, and various hollywood celebs) and set up funds to pay for all these uninsured? I read recently that Ophra is now worth 2.7 billion. Just a half a billion would pay a lot of premiums. Instead of spending billions in Africa maybe Mr. Microsoft should spend more in America. You know the old saying... Charity begins at home. Just a suggestion.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 7:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: the ones supporting Obamacare may be more educated, but they are a long way from being smarter than those of us who aren't. I want true health reform also, but I want our constitution and our freedom protected much more! The crooks we have in congress right now can't be trusted with health care reform or anything else and Obama can only be trusted to try to destroy America and the freedom she stands for!

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 7:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Part 2:
At the risk of being called a racist (again) or at least a hater of Mexicans (and illegals in general) I will repeat that I do not think that tax payers should pay for health care for illegals. The Los Angeles Times reported that in 2008 Mexicans sent 25 billion dollars back to Mexico (remittances). Yes, this was less than in previous years. Please tell me why US hospitals should have to spend, for example, 2 million dollars a month providing ER dialysis for illegals? This is one hospital and one specific treatment (80 patients). One of the illegals in the article (Las Vegas newspaper) was at one time hospitalized for months due to his renal failure. To his credit he is trying to pay the hospital 50 dollars a month.
Before anyone posts telling me how much I hate Mexicans and how racist I am, let me tell you this. Such accusations will come as a huge surprise to the foreign exchange from Coatzacoalcos, Veracruz, Mexico who lived with us for 10 months, his parents and his brother who spent some time with us as well.

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 8:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't know who you are referencing as to superior education or intelligence because I have claimed to be neither. As to Bill Gates, you need to look further into the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, my son is going to college right now, as are many other kids, on a scholarship provided by their foundation and that is here in the good ole' USA. I think it was Estragon who pointed out to you in a previous post- you & I are paying for health care for the uninsured now, I think he explained that it was in a back door fashion but still...and once again let me reiterate- The bill will not pay for health care for illegal immigrants! I can assure you that none of the people I am referencing are driving BMW's. I am sure there are some out there like you say but that still does not negate the fact that there are people who CANNOT afford insurance, people who cannot afford to get sick. You can make yourself feel better all you like by thinking of the BMW driving person you know, but that person is not the norm. You need to come let me introduce you to some of the people I know, it will just break your heart. I watched this documentary today, http://www.pbs.org/pov/criticalcondition... I challenge you all to watch it and not be moved by the plight of these fellow Amercians.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 8:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iamabookworm: I agree with just about everything in your last post, but you are naive if you believe for one second that Obama and the left wing liberal congress doesn't intend on you and I paying for illegals health care coverage. We're paying for it now and if Obama has his way, it will continue. There are not as many illegal mexicans in Covington county as there are in other places, but I went with a friend to a clinic in Albertville, AL last year and the waiting room was full of south of the border people. There were several who were treated while I was waiting with him to see the doctor and I never saw a dime change hands. My friend said it was full like that all the time and that he and I were paying for their treatment. I'm sure it's the same way everywhere else.

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 8:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm sure it is and we ARE paying for it NOW, every time our premiums go up. That (illegal immigrants) is a separate issue that needs to be addressed. Are we going to deny American taxpaying citizens health care just so that illegal immigrants won't have access? That is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Another thing if we are going to have a mature discussion, enough with the left wing liberal smears, okay? If you want to be taken seriously that is not the way to go. Again I say health care should not be a political issue, we are talking about people, real human beings who are suffering. Did you hear about the free medical clinic that was held in LA a couple of weeks ago by RAM? Thousands of people stood in line for days to get care. They had to turn people away, this is the United States of America, not some third world nation, this is just an atrocity that it should be this way. You can say that YOU would rather die than give up some supposed freedom if you want, but would you be willing to watch your CHILD die or what about some other loved one. I wouldn't, I'd do ANYTHING for my child, anything. The insurance industry is holding us hostage. Like Bluebell says "Now can we have health care reform?" Goodnight all.

Posted by MoreCowBell (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 9:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Whether you're Dem or Repub, Liberal or Conservative, it doesn't matter. This whole thing is about the government tightening the noose a notch or two tighter. It's about controlling you.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 9:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iamabookworm: Not Obamacare and it is left wing liberals in congress who are shoving this down our throats., even you have to admit that. I know that health care reform should not be a political issue, but by ramming bills through congress that no one has read or understands, The democrat congress has made it a big political issue. I would do anything in my power for my children and loved ones also , but every time we give government control over any aspect of our lives, we diminish what the founders of our nation had in mind for us when they wrote the constitution. Our founders warned us that these attempts would be made and placed safe guards to keep them from happening, but they continue to push the envelope. Government has taken way too many freedoms already and if the people of all parties don't wake up soon, we will soon have none left.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 9:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MoreCowBell: you are correct, but you have to admit that it is Obama and the democrat congress that is tightening the rope.

Posted by MoreCowBell (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 9:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

True

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 10:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MoreCowBell : Good night

Posted by MoreCowBell (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 10:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good Nite

Posted by andalusiainquirer (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 10:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Rgodwin needs to explain what freedoms he thinks he is going to lose if the health care bill passes.

Posted by Bluebelle51 (anonymous) on August 24, 2009 at 11:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

andalusiainquirer: rgodwin is fighting for the freedom to have his health coverage yanked away when he needs it most, and the freedom for insurance executives to make $100,000 an HOUR by denying coverage for truly sick people. He's fighting for the right to let people die because their conditions weren't diagnosed in time, and for people to have to choose between buying their medicine and food.
After all it has worked so well for so long why fix it now?

Now can we have health care reform?

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 6:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

andalusiainquirer: if the House health care bill were to pass as it is now wrtitten, government will have total control over yours and my health care which in return will steal most of your freedoms. If they control the health care of every American family, we will no longer live in a free America. If that is above your head, I'm sorry. I don't know how to put it any simpler!

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 6:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Bluebelle51: you need to do some research and check with people from countries who do have socialized medicine and then come back and tell us how great it is. There are those who come to America every day to receive treatment because they would be dead by the time their name came up on the waiting list with their great socialized health care. Obama and the democrat congress are evil and they happen to be democrats. They would be just as evil if they were republicans, but this time they are not. Why is it that you want something so bad and you nor the ones pushing it don't even care if it rips your personal freedoms from you and your family?

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 8:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: Would you provide proof that there are people from countries that have socialized medicine who come to America every day to receive treatment because they would be dead by the time their name came up on the waiting list? This is nonsense. There are Americans who every day go down to Cuba and to Mexico to receive health care they can not afford in the U.S., but isolated anecdotes like these are a poor excuse for deciding upon public policy. It is obvious to me that you are not a well educated person, have never had any real business experience, and you don't know what you are talking about.

If you don't believe the health care system in the U.S. is beginning to collapse under the weight of uncompensated care that hospitals have to provide to the uninsured, why don't you go to the meeting tonight in Opp about the need to raise taxes to support Mizell Memorial Hospital.

Health care reform is not just about helping people who rgodwin seems to despise, it is also about saving the health care system for all of us.

Posted by drpepper (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I didn't take time to read all the comments and this may be off subject, but do you think all of the people that voted for this big eared obama goon is having second thoughts? None of this so called "change/reform" garbage is going to work, but nice trying Mr. P.

GO FOX NEWS!!!!!

Posted by bama09 (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 9:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon, why were you so quick to assume that Ms Tolbert's comments were facts and that the conservative views are fiction? I would really like to know the source of these facts. President Obama can not even provide the details of the bill to the public but she can. I personally do not want more Government in my life!!

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon; if our government would seal our borders and send the illegals home that are draining our heath care system, the system would not be falling apart. I never claimed to be well educated, but I have more common sense than you will ever poses and that's all I or anyone else needs to know that this is nothing but just another attempt at government take over and has nothing to do with health care reform. You are just a left wing liberal who sucks up everything Obama says, and I guarantee you that there are more that have my opinion and position than yours. Every day, even more of the honest democrats are seeing the light and turning against his policies. I will take my 12th grade education and my common sense over what you have any day! I believe in our constitution and limited government which is something that apparently you don't.

Posted by countrylivin (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Kathy Stephens nobody has to tell you that what you wrote is racist - you know it. Yes, that comment was racist. You knew that before you typed it. Come on people.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Kathy Stephens, if you meant my last post was racist, I'd like for you to explain how. If you were speaking of someone else I apologize. There is noting racist about wanting illegals out of our country and off of our system. There are people of all nationalities that come to this country legally and have to wait years to do so. These people are welcomed with open arms. It is not right for anyone to simply step foot across our borders illegally and get a free ride on the back of honest hard working Americans and I don't care which border it is. I assume if your comment was meant for me that you automatically assumed I meant the southern border and the very fact that you thought it makes you more racist than me. The southern border is the most abused entry point, but I mean all borders. Secure our borders form illegal entry and then worry about health care reform. If you think that makes me racist, so be it.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Most of the posts written by supporters of Obama have an air of superiority to them. The folks in opposition are always less educated, poorly informed, repeaters of republican talking points, etc. One poster twice stated specifically that those not supporting Obama's health care plan(s) appear to have a limited education.
I am familiar with the Gates foundation since I have attended a few seminars giving by reps of said foundation. That still does not change the fact that Gates has given billions to Africa.
The fact that we tax payers are paying for illegals' health care has not escaped me. That is part of my point. We should not be paying for them at all.
We all agree that reform is needed. We are not supporting Obama's plan(s) because we do not agree with the plan(s) not because we hate our fellow citizens. Nothing I have posted on this thread was done to make me feel better about myself. It was stated that 45.7 million people are uninsured because they could not afford to pay for insurance. Again, that number includes people uninsured for any reason.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 10:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Part 2: What does Dr. Anne Doig, new incoming head of the Canadian Medical Association, say about the Canadian system? She states that the Canadian system is "imploding and things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize". She further says that the if system that is in place right now continues without change it is not sustainable. The outgoing president states that "there's a critical need to make Canada's health-care system patient-centered". What, may I ask, is the center of the system if it isn't the patients? So, the idea that a national health care system will solve all our problems is simply ridiculous.
I will repeat a question that I have asked before. If Obama's plan is the greatest thing since penicillin, why won't he (and and all Congress) stand up and declare that they and their families will be the first to participate? Please do not respond that they should have to participate. We all agree on that. But I have news for you. They won't. And neither will anyone else who can afford to go to the head of the line. It just so happens that I met several of those nonsense stories Estragon refers to. Met several Canadians who could afford to fly themselves to San Antonio TX for treatment by an outstanding dermatologist. They sure seemed real to me. And I guess the stories of poor medical care that are told by my neighbor's family (Canadians) are just for entertainment.
BTW, some Americans go to Mexico for procedures/treatments that are not approved in the US. That's what the wife of our former pastor did. They decided that they didn't like the course of treatment prescribed by oncologists here in the US. So off to Mexico for some unorthodox treatment. Unfortunately for them, by the time they realized that the Mexican treatment wasn't working, it was too late for her.
There are many things that we all agree on. Prescriptions cost too much, some American citizens don't receive the care they need, and so on. That doesn't mean that Obama's plan is the answer.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan; your last post was very good and I don't understand how anyone could disagree with anything you had to say but trust me, they do!

Posted by lookeyhere (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

countrylivin wrote...."Yes,that comment was racist." I believe it is racist to think that comment is racist.I am a white male who is being discriminated against everyday.

Posted by kathystephens (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

countrylivin you seem to have the advantage you seem to know who I am. Please give me your real name so I will know who you are and what you have against me. I never missioned race in any of my post. As far as chains go I have a couple myself. Wait I also have insurance. Rgodwin I have no clue as to why you thought I called you a racist. I happen to agree with the notion of sending illeagels back to their home country where ever that may be. They can come here leageally and I have no problem with that. I have said before business before pleasure instead of pleasure whoops I have no money for business. I have done without things I wanted just to have insurance. TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS first.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on August 25, 2009 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

kathystephens: I put at the beginning of my post that I apologized if your post wasn't intended for me. It followed right after mine and I thought you must have been writing to me, but I do apologize for assuming. I do however believe that the illegals are a large part of our problem with health care, so sending the illegals home is business that is long over due.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on August 27, 2009 at 5:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon: Here are some people I know, who have come to America for treatment because of the wait in their homeland: S. Ditor, K Landman, J Klinehagar,Canada: C Klug, H. Rexroth
G. Schular-Heilmann, M. Zensen, C Muelberger, Germany; S Baijsk, Czech. I would love to hear more regarding Americans going to Cuba for treatment.

Posted by winkie (anonymous) on September 3, 2009 at 10:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe that closeing the Mexican border will not only cut down on medical costs but will stop the drug trade which costs Americans a fortune to control. Our goverment uses illegals to help control their own intrests. I'm quite sure there are gangsters in our gov. who profit from gun runnung, drugs as well as human trafficking.