Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 8:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Justin: I've never seen and article that was more on the mark than this one of yours is. You will hear a little flap from the left, but it will be from a small minority and it will just be nonsensical jiberish to try to make themselves feel good. Every true conservative or anyone with just a dab of common sense will love your article, because it is absolutely true and very easy for anyone to understand. I like things simple, because I want anyone who either talks to me or happens to read what I write to know exactly what I said and what I meant. I think the majority of these liberal idiots in Hollywood are just stupid for even opening their mouths about politics. I seldom go to a movie, but when one of these idiots start spewing their liberal beliefs on television where we can see it, they guarantee that me and millions of others will never spend another dime on entertainment where they are concerned. I bet that most conservatives do more to help others (by income percentage) than any just about any Hollywood liberal or any other liberal. Liberals are very caring and giving as long as it's someone else doing the caring and someone else giving the money. There is corruption in health care just like there is in government. We need true health care reform just like we need to clean out Washington, but Christianity, capitalism and our constitution are the three things that have made this company great and we need to get back to them and stop trying to destroy the three things that have made us the greatest nation on earth.

Posted by leisa1962 (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well said.

Posted by outlaw11 (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 1:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

One of the best eds ever in the history of the Andy Star News...no truer words have ever been written...my hat is off to the grad from ND...welcome home

Posted by febone (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 2:30 p.m.

(This comment was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Justin you rocked it. You are the best writer for the ASN. Great writing.

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 4:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Justin: So you are A-OK with insurance execs making mega bucks each year and don't expect THEM to share their profits with us but Hollywood actors are in another category entirely? A few Hollywood actors get together and make a video parodying insurance executives and you find this upsetting. All summer long we have been bombarded with tv commercials, tea party demonstrations etc. all financed by insurance lobbyists to protect their status quo and to keep Americans from having REAL health care reform. I guess we know whose Kool-Aid you have been drinking.
Here are a just few numbers that I dug up, also according to Forbes:

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2007 Total CEO Compensation

* Aetna Ronald A. Williams: $23,045,834
* Cigna H. Edward Hanway: $25,839,777
* Coventry Dale B. Wolf : $14,869,823
* Health Net Jay M. Gellert: $3,686,230
* Humana Michael McCallister: $10,312,557
* U.Health Grp Stephen J. Hemsley: $13,164,529
* WellPoint Angela Braly (2007): $9,094,271
L. Glasscock (2006): $23,886,169

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 5:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iamabookworm: documentation please. Document from a neutral source that the tea parties were financed by insurance companies/lobbyists. The difference is, as Justin pointed out, that the celebrities want others to pay for what they deem needs to be fixed or funded. It is more of the Do as I say and not as I do. Same with liberal politicians. Insurance executives are not on tv (that I have seen) insisting that the middle class be taxed more to pay for healthcare or anything else. Yes, some rich liberals do donate money... to liberal causes such as Planed Parenthood.
How much healthcare could George Soros pay for with the 950,000 dollars he has contributed to PP since 2002? He'd rather kill the unborn than help provide medical care for the living.

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 5:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: I already explained in a previous posting all about Freedwom Works and where their money comes from, also American's For Prosperity. Of course insurance execs are not on tv asking for more taxes on us, they are having others do the dirty work for them. They don't need our tax money, they get that (money) every month in the form of insurance premiums that are rising sky high, also when they deny coverage to people who have insurance, ie rescission. You suggested to me once that I look into getting my son an Individual Blue policy from BCBS if he is unable to get employer sponsored health insurance. I have a co-worker who did that very thing for his daughter. She needs an operation NOW and after paying for this plan for 10 months they say "Nope, sorry shoulda' read the small print, we don't cover that issue until you have continuous coverage for 12 months!" I'm sorry by that is just not right. So he can either pay for this operation outright or wait two months and hope everything will be alright. What do you want to bet that in two months they will try to say "oh no that is a preexisting condition," or just won't renew the policy. So my coworker by trying to do the right thing has gotten royally screwed! By the way my own personal insurance is rising 8.8% in 2010, the largest increase in years. That is so nice, I just love paying for the insurance execs to have their large bonuses. I don't mind at all, I am sure they are so deserving.

What is your problem with planned parenthood? Teenagers need fact based sex education not this abstinence only crap, now that is a waste of tax payer dollars! Something I don't understand is why the Christian Right is comfortable with being 100% pro-life and 100% anti-health care. Seems to me that if you want to force women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term, especially teen mothers, crack heads, and so forth, that you ought to also be in favor of letting them get prenatal care on your nickel. At least they'd have a chance at healthier babies. What about those kids once they are here too, who pays for that?
Wondering what the Right would have to say about state-sponsored day care, too. Quite a few countries have that, and since most young families are dual wage earners, seems sensible to make that available to all. Modern daycare costs about 85/wk per child at the moment in Alabama, probably more in other states. If you have a single Mom on minimum wage, her best choice would be AFDC if she can possibly qualify. But you hate those 'welfare Queens', right?
One is about morals and one is about Government Intrusion? Well, how much more intrusive can the Government get than some woman's womb, for Pete's sake? Let's start calling it what is- Pro-choice/anti choice. As for myself, I am pro QUALITY of LIFE. I want ALL people to have access to health care.

Posted by lookeyhere (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 6:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iamabookworm wrote..." Seems to me that if you want to force women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term,especially teen mothers,crack heads,and so forth,that you ought to also be in favor of letting them get prenatal care on your nickel." Why do you liberals think that everyone should take care of you.Don't have a baby if you are not financially able to provide.Also it should be common sense that abortion is flat out wrong.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 7:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iamabookworm: The main purpose and goal of PP is abortion. This is how the not for profit business makes money. They do receive federal dollars by the way. Here is a tip for all the women who do not want to get pregnant... do not have sexual intercourse. The percentage of hard cases are estimated as follows: rape or incest, 0.3%; risk to maternal health or life, 1%; fetal abnormality, 0.5%. That leaves 98% that are elective. It was a choice. By default, perhaps, but nothing was done to prevent it. If the sex education that is being provided by PP is so wonderful and convincing, why do we have teen mothers? The nurse at my school can't give a student a tylenol without a directive from a doctor, yet PP will perform an abortion on a teenager without parental notification. PP will also tell an underaged girl to lie about the age of the "boyfriend" to cover up statutory rape.
It is not unusual for an insurance policy to have a waiting period or not cover pre-existing conditions. If not, why not wait until a condition is diagnosed and then get the insurance? This is what is happening in Massachusetts.
Unless a single mother has elected to have in vitro fertilization, there is a known father (or at least at list to choose from) so why isn't he helping to pay for child care? My mother was a single parent who received no child support from a my dead beat dad. She never took welfare or a single food stamp and worked at a low wage job most of her life. She did not buy into the it takes a village to raise a child. Did we have help from family? You bet we did. So, where are families helping families?
(continued)

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 7:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

(continued) I personally am very tired of the victim mentality. Everyone is a victim. Well, no they aren't. People make choices and there are consequences. Things do happen to people. There are layoffs, cut backs, illnesses, etc. but there is support and help. You continue to harp that the Christian right doesn't want healthcare. Where do you get that? You make it up. Plain and simple. Time and time again, conservatives have posted that health care reform is needed but we do not want ObamaCare. Yet you continue to say that conservatives (specifically Christians) don't want people to have health care. That is simply not true.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 3, 2009 at 7:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: Superb post!

Posted by MoreCowBell (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 7:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I wonder if the celeb's know that no one really cares what they think?

On a different subject, I guess "The One" isn't as big a hit as he thought he was with the world (i.e. the Olympics). Finally we have seen an election that Chicago can't rig! Can you believe it?

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

MoreCowBell: I believe the Hollywood crowd does not get the fact that they do not matter! These 'celebrities' with inflated egos are fractured individuals at best. As Justin wrote, they make a living "pretending to be something they are not." Their opinions are meaningless and it is sad they do not realize how irrelevant they truly are! The same holds true for many politicians. The star light is beginning to dim not only in Hollywood, but DC also! Reality is often a bummer!

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 12:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: your October 3, 7:11 pm post was really great. Planned Parenthood is all about abortion and I can't figure out why "someone" can't figure out that abstinence is the only thing proven to work 100% of the time to prevent pregnancy!

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think that the down right stupidist comment that I have read on the blog in months may be "Abstinence is the only form of birth control that is 100% effective in preventing pregnancy." Yeah that's true, but it's like saying "blowing your head off will prevent you from feeling pain tomorrow." It's just stupid advice. Teenagers are having sex because their spiking hormones are telling them to, and that given that fact, it makes more sense, on average, to teach them to handle those spiking hormones effectively than to pretend that the hormones aren't spiking at all. Maybe there's some confusion over what abstinence education means. Telling kids that it's good to wait, well, that makes sense. Encouraging them to wait also makes sense. But giving them no way of responsibly dealing with the process if they don't wait: that makes no sense at all. Abstinence-only education is sort of the social equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and going "LALALALA" about the nature of human sexuality. Please, I was once a teenager, actually not all that terribly long ago, we were all having sex then including the preachers daughter (she's the one who had an abortion) and I am sure that not much has changed in the intervening years. The argument that "abstinence only" actually results in MORE pregnancies is centered on the argument that "knowledge, information" are power in making decisions. THAT applies to many areas of life, not just sexuality. (continued)

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Conservatives like yourself wtidefan can say they want people to have health care all you want but why are you guys not doing what is necessary to insure that QUALITY, AFFORDABLE health care is available to all if that is the case. I am just not seeing it. I am so glad Wtidefan that you had a family willing to help you out when your family experienced hard times but sadly that is not always the case. Many people have families who are either unwilling or unable to help. What you seem to be lacking Wtidefan with your comment about being tired of the victim mentality is empathy for your fellow human beings. Empathy is the ability to place yourself in another's shoes and imagine things from their perspective. Compassion is something you extend to someone you feel empathy towards. It's hard to ever reach the level of being compassionate without first being able to feel empathy. There are lots of points that conservatives make that I have sympathy for, like emphasis on being responsible for oneself, the right to protect oneself at home, focus on the family unit, government incompetence, and so on. I'm not completely opposed to the principles behind the ideology. That said, I could never subscribe to it - the mainstream conservative movement is far too selfish - they push as hard as they can to stop any kind of protections being applied in society, and then when people are, all too often by NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, completely ****** over by the lack of protections, conservatives claim it is all their own fault. I admit I would be thoroughly impressed by a conservative who stands by their principles after having been kidnapped by the government, water boarded into confessing to a crime they didn't commit, then dumped back into society with no compensation, and immunity for those who did it to them to boot. I might have to rethink everything I stand for if I ran into that particular conservative. HA!!!!

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iamaworm said: I think that the down right stupidist comment that I have read on the blog in months may be "Abstinence is the only form of birth control that is 100% effective in preventing pregnancy." Yeah that's true, but it's like saying "blowing your head off will prevent you from feeling pain tomorrow." It's just stupid advice. end quote

If it was so stupid, why did you then say, "it's true?" "Now that was really a stupid remark!" You should really try that pain reliever you spoke of. I'll keep a check in the obituaries, but I really would not expect someone who admits she was easy even in school to understand about abstinence, but the Bible still teaches that abstinence is what God expects before marriage even though most fail. It's still what he expects, but I'm sure that means nothing to you.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iamabookworm: "you guys aren't doing what is necessary". Well, what would you have us guys do? Join you in your worship of Obamacare? Can't do that. You want ObamaCare and it matters not one whit how or if our nation can pay for it. You want health care for all with some paying for it. You have made statements, at least by implication, that I do not have empathy or sympathy for others. That would make me a sociopath. By no means is that true. My family as helped a lot of individuals and families who needed help. We are thankful to God that we have been employed and able to help others.
Hormones are nothing new. Every human being who has lived to adulthood has experienced spiking hormones. Every teenager (including many today) do not have sex outside of marriage. Why is that sexual intercourse is the only risky behavior that liberals claim teenagers will engage in and therefore they must be given instructions/birth control? During adolescence, the frontal lobe of the brain actually regresses. Decision making is affected. Why don't parents provide alcohol/marijuana/cigarettes for teens since they "are probably going to drink/smoke anyway"? No, it is only sexual behavior that we tell them that they can't control. We tell them to just say no to drugs and expect them to avoid drugs. But sex, well you teens just go ahead and "get it on" 'cause we know you can't control yourself.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: Brilliant!!!

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

(continued) It is part of the if it feels good, do it philosophy. The message that is being sent to young people is that you have no more control over sexual urges than animals. We ignore the emotional and psychological damage done to young people by sexual promiscuity.

What in the world does kidnapping by the government, water boarding, and the rest of your statement have to do with health care or teen sexuality? Oh, I know. It is Bush's fault.

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 3:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Rgodwin: I am trying to decide are you just naturally a jerk or does the anonymity of the internet bring out something repressed inside of you. I think some people are just jerks because they are overcompensating for their overwhelming feelings of inadequacy. They think that they can make their star shine brighter, by making it seem they are better than others. Why don't you go work on your switch? You should always remember what a small world it is that we all live in.........:-)

Posted by lookeyhere (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iambookworm wrote..."Please,I was once a teenager,actually not all that terribly long ago ,we were all having sex" Uh so your saying most all the boys in your neighborhood hung out at your house.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 4:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

worm: if you want to go back and read your today post at 2:06 p.m. you will see that you asked for the response you got, so read it again and figure out who the real jerk here is. Most people who read these blogs already know! I'm so glad that you're life doesn't interest me the way mine does you, but let me assure you, I know what a small world it is and if you personally knew so much about me, you would know that I have no feelings of inadequacy other than I know that I have a long way to go to be the Christian I need to be, but then again that's something also you would know nothing about.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 7:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: Great posts and totally on target! If everyone would be responsible for their own choices.....the world would be orderly!

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 7:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Rgodwin: Do not flatter yourself my interest in you is simply a matter of self preservation. I admit you scare me, and I simply desire to recognize someone like you so that you can be avoided. Aren't you proud of yourself? Scaring a woman is so manly.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 7:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bookworm: RE: your comments on abstinence. So much for those "high standards" you professed to hold near and dear!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 7:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: I think you are not hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. You do give your last name, right? That is more than most are willing to give!
Thanks for your posts :o)

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 7:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iamabookworm: you have no need to be afraid of me. I wouldn't give you the time of day if you didn't persist on calling me out, but I will not roll over when provoked. I know many real ladies and not a one to them has any fear of me that I know of and none of them are doing investigations on me either as far as I know. I've told you before that all you have to do is click on my name if you have something personal to say to me, but as of this date that has never happened.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 7:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: that one knows my name and anyone else who wants to know can click on my name and ask. I don't hide anything from anyone. When I first started reading and writing in this blog, I didn't even realize that it was suppose to be annonymous, but I wouldn't change it now anyway. I've always seen things in black and white with very little gray area. When you have a Christian foundation and search for the truth about any subject, it's real easy to decide what's right and wrong when you have that truth. I may be hard headed at times, but I will not compromise my core beliefs.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 7:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: Being true to ones self is what it is all about. I too have a rather black or white world. Letting the gray in.....causes all the trouble!

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 7:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican : thank you, that's the way I've always believed also.

Posted by MoreCowBell (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 7:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey worm, has the rubber met the road yet?

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 8:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MoreCowBell: Now THAT was funny!

Posted by MoreCowBell (anonymous) on October 4, 2009 at 8:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks, even a blind hog will find an acorn ever now and then!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 5, 2009 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is an interesting site. No political preferences, just a common sense approach to true health care reform.

http://www.healthcareletter.com/the-lett...

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 5, 2009 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I found this, this morning and thought it was great!

An open letter to President Obama about his policies

Published Sunday, October 4, 2009

Dear editor,

What follows below is a letter to our president, Barack Hussein Obama.

Dear Mr. President:

When will you ever understand that the people that matter most in this, the greatest nation on Earth, have been sending you a loud and clear message for many weeks now? However, for some strange reason you just don’t seem to get it, do you?

The people that I’m referring to, Mr. President are the regular, everyday citizens of America. Many of these are the people who attended the congressional town hall meetings that were held all over the country during August. Our political representatives from both houses got an earful from thousands of concerned and sometimes angry attendees.

As you must know, Mr. President, the main thrust of the town hall contentious rhetoric, coming from the citizens, had to do with the bad health care bill you are trying to ram down our throats. Truth be known, about 80 percent of Americans are satisfied with the health programs they currently have.

The overriding problem is what the “tea parties” and the recent march on Washington by tens of thousands have been all about. These people, according to most of the national polls, are in the majority, and they don’t like what you are trying to sell. They are against the federal government takeover on all of the programs you have been pushing.

Again, I must beg the question: whose side are you on anyway? You have just lifted the missile shields program from our Eastern European allies, Poland and the Czech Republic. Those shields represented a national commitment made by George W. Bush. Your timing was perfect Mr. President in that this concession to Moscow came on the 70th anniversary of the Red Army’s invasion of Poland.

You have been vacillating on the Afghan troop increase requests from our generals, and Iran, with their nuclear threat, has been in open defiance versus your impotent protests. Have you forgotten that your top priority is national security?

What this country really needs is smaller government, lower taxes, a super-strong military and a multitude of many, many other improvements that will take us in the opposite direction from your socialistic big-government plan.

Byrd Looper

Selma

Posted by winkie (anonymous) on October 5, 2009 at 5:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hollywood is just that Hollywood. A world of make believe. The most are liberals who hide money in Swiss Banks, live an adultrious perverted life of drug's. But we still elect them into gov. offices. Great artical and well written, Justin.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 5, 2009 at 6:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: Re: Byrd Looper letter.............Amen!
winkie: Amen ....again!

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 5, 2009 at 8:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican : the link you posted earlier today was just great. It took me a few minutes to read, but it should be required reading.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 6, 2009 at 9:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: Yes, I thought it was a great, thought provoking letter. At least the writer is doing something to make a contribution, rather than pointing fingers, bellyaching and moaning woe is me, my friends, my co workers, my family......yada yada!

Posted by winkie (anonymous) on October 6, 2009 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Great link, LoyalAmerican. Thanks

Posted by bsd10231966 (anonymous) on October 6, 2009 at 3:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I certainly appreciate you taking the time to share you thought regarding healthcare. However, you like most people have missed the point. GOD speaks many times about helping the poor. And most people in the area are Christians. Jesus spoke that we are to help those people and not deny them help when they need this. By not supporting healthcare reform, you are basically turning your back on the Principles of Jesus Christ.

I will certainly pray for those who are against this impt legislation.

Shalom.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 6, 2009 at 4:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bsd10231966 : I don't know of anyone, conservative, moderate or liberal who has said that we do not need true health care reform, but if Obama care passes, everyone in America will need your prayers. The majority of Americans do not want this and they are attempting to shove it down our throats. I wish those of you that think you want it had it, but you can't have it without destroying what we now have. What we have may not be perfect and it needs work, but Obama care will be a complete disaster just like Obama!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 6, 2009 at 5:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bsd10231966: I do not know anyone who is against health care reform. If the fraud, waste and abuse in Medicare and Medicaid would be addressed NOW, the savings would be more than enough to help the poor subsidize insurance premiums. Remember, approximately 85% of American citizens are satisfied with their health care policies. They may not be thrilled beyond words, but they are satisfied. Every American could realize savings in health care if tort reform is brought to fruition, eliminate pre-existing condition exemptions, mandate insurance portability and allow insurance companies to sell health care policies across state lines. These are quick fixes for immediate relief and coverage. As previously stated.....no one I know is against health care reform. What I oppose with regard to health care, is the vehicle being used to transport a monster bill called HR 3200. Compare HR 3200 and HR 3400, something in between could probably be worked out for the good of all....not just a few!

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on October 6, 2009 at 6:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bsd10231966: The Obama plan has zero to do with healthcare reform and everything to do with making Americans dependent on the federal government for medical care. Canadians are now trying to find a way to have a private option since the public option is an absolute disaster. LoyalAmerican makes very good points, as usual. Why in the world would we want another government bureaucracy? Haven't we seen enough?

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on October 6, 2009 at 9:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bsd10231966: It is refreshing to read a post from someone who understands the essential message of Christianity. The problem with LoyalAmerican, rgodwin, winkie, WATidefan, is that they are not worshipping the historical Jesus, but a graven image (like a golden calf) that they created of someone with middle class morality and values, a warrior God who advances militarism, nationalism, and selfish materialism. They long for a hierarchical and patriarchal society where a true leader (Sarah Palin??) dispenses "the truth" to all the credulous "believers." As for MoreCowBell, well he apparently has eaten too many blue oysters and watched too many skits on SNL.

Where exactly does Justin get the idea that the current proposals for health care reform mean that: "Americans don’t have to pay for their health insurance because it’s provided by the government (i.e., the taxpayers)"? This statement shows on his part not only intellectual immaturity but a total lack of understanding about the health care delivery system in our country, how we currently pay for it, and the effect that the proposed reforms would have on the system. Like most of Justin's Opinion columns, this one is based entirely on ideological postulates and out of context anecdotes, as it is fact-free and devoid of any type of informed analysis.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 6, 2009 at 9:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon, bsd10231966 is probably you, but if not you both sure think alike. It's amazing that an avowed atheist could be so knowledgeable about mine or any other Christians worship habits, but as usual you are misinformed. I worship the same Jesus that is spoken of in (John 1:1. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.) The Word was Jesus Christ then and he still is today. I would not expect you to believe it, but you will confess it one day. I know that , because the Word says so (Phillipians 2:9-11) and the Word is truth.
Conservatives do want a leader for the good of all Americans, even you, but we do not know for sure who that person is yet. If it turns out to be Palin that will be just fine. A blind deaf mute in a coma would be better than Obama.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on October 6, 2009 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon: Amazing that you can make such statements about me seeing that we have never met. Your description sounds much more like the followers of Obama. Chanting his name imploring him to hear their cry and requiring young public school students to memorize songs/poems extolling Obama's greatness is more descriptive of Obama worshipers than posters you have named. You never fail to show up to support anyone who questions the motives of posters who profess to be Christians. You detest Christians and Christianity. I do not worship Jesus because He is a historical figure although He is that. I worship Him because He is Lord and Savior; the only way to God the Father; the only name by which one may be saved from eternal damnation. My prayer is that it will please God the Father to call many out of the darkness and into His marvelous light.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on October 6, 2009 at 10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: You are correct. Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 4:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

estragon: Once again you have missed the mark. For a person such as your self, how would you, of all people, know how others worship. In my opinion, you are agnostic at best or atheist, worse case scenario. Either way, I do not care...it is your choice. For some reason you wrote as if you know me, by remarking to whom and how I worship. You know absolutely nothing about me, other than what I have written on posts in Star News. You wrote: "They long for a hierarchical and patriarchal society where a true leader (Sarah Palin??) dispenses "the truth" to all the credulous "believers." At what depot does your train of thought stop to pick up such a load of gibberish! Also, you bring in your usual "class" warfare innuendos. This is a very telling trait for you. What is middle class morality and values? Is there a poor class morality and poor class values? Is there a high class morality and high class values? Morals and values are classless. You either have them or you don't! If you would climb down from your perch and reread Justin's column you will get the true gist. It is NOT about health care reform, it about "celebrities" having double standards. By the way, your brand of "Informed analysis" is usually an exercise in mythomania penned by a wannabee. Tighten up Estragon.....can't you write anything without poison darts. Can you write suggestions, not an analysis, on what YOU can do to offer solutions?
You analyze all, but offer nothing of any value! You sit back reading posts, never offering anything until someone writes a tad negative remark, then you jump in telling them "how refreshing" it is to read something that makes sense! Actually, what spurred you on this topic was not refreshing at all. The writer was misinformed. So if misinformation is refreshing to you............breathe deeply and tune in to Chris Mathews!

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 5:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan, if you are a Christian, you don't need to "confess" that J.C. is your Lord and Savior. You also don't have to "accept" J.C. as your "personal Lord and Savior." And, you don't have to befriend him on Facebook either. What you have to do is live like he lived. That is something none of you conservative hypocrites are doing.

Gandhi said it perfectly. Calling attention to how his homeland had been brutalized by the imperialism of a western, Christian nation, he said: "Christianity would be a great religion...if it weren't for the Christians."

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 5:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon said, "if you are a Christian, you don't need to "confess" that J.C. is your Lord and Savior. You also don't have to "accept" J.C. as your "personal Lord and Savior." end quote

I have no idea what Estragon's reading and this isn't suppose to be a bible class site, but there has never been a Christian that didn't confess Jesus as Lord and accept him as their personal savior BEFORE he or she became a Christian. I'm sure I may differ with other Christians on some things, but some things are not left up to debate and this falls into that category!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 6:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

estragon: You are treading in waters all too Unfamiliar. You giving advice or explanations on Christianity, is akin to asking the fox how to build a safe, fox proof hen house! I don't think honesty will come forth from either situation. Never have I read one syllable you have written where you imply, even remotely, that you are a Christian or even speak/write as God or Jesus would. I doubt your life is lived as Jesus would have you do. Furthermore, I do not care how you live your life. You can be a gay activist and it bothers me not! But on the subject of Christianity,be very careful, you will find yourself drowning in a sea of ignorance. As a matter of fact you are listing so far to the left...capsizing is imminent!

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The beings who live in darkness cannot see what those in God's Light see, or comprehend. It's of little use to explain to them the things that bring us joy, peace and love; for within their souls, is a secret jealousy for what Christians possess. Darkness truly is a heavy burden for them to carry within, and we see this as it vents out through their words and writings to hurt us.

The Blind Ones are in great danger of losing forever their eternal place prepared for them in Heaven.

The reward for being faithful to our Creator on this earth is awaiting those who know, love and serve God and neighbor.

To lose any child of God to suffer the pains of eternal hell with Satan as victor and his myriads of fallen angels, spurs us on to pray for them.

We have been shown the darkness within these people who desire to hate the children of the Light - so now we must pray for them, for the love, honor and glory of God the Father. Our hope lies in the Cross and God's mercy for all His children, for we want not even our worst enemy to suffer the pains of Hell for all eternity. That is Christian charity.

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 10:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican, rgodwin, and WATideFan: what I am saying is that your religion, and its notion of what it means to be a Christian, really sucks. Christianity was not meant to be mean spirited and judgmental. And, for your information, not every person who embraces Christianity is a closed minded "fundie," blind to injustice and lacking in empathy and compassion.

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I just read Shamrock's post. It sounded like insane ramblings or the fantasies of a drug-induced trip. Christianity was not meant to be a mental illness. We were given a brain and the power of reason for a purpose. I think that our Creator meant for us to use that power of reason to our fullest abilities.

The Bible is only literature from the minds of men. It was written in allegory and metaphor, and can only be understood in the context of the times, places, and circumstances in which it was written. Unless one accepts this fact, he or she will never grasp the lessons that the Bible seeks to impart. People who are fundamentalists/literalists have done more damage in this world in the name of religion that all atheists or agnostics combined.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 11:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You will find out who is correct soon enough. In the meantime, we will pray for your soul while you ramble on in hate.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Blind One made the point exactly that they cannot comprehend, nor in his case, desire to understand. He calls Shamrock's 10:14 post: the 'fantasies of a drug-induced trip..and a mental illness". You can see what darkness is within him and there is little we can do but to pray for his soul, and endure his fury if we so choose.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 12:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon: Where have you read my "notion" or interpretation of being a Christian? You have not a clue as to how I look upon organized religion. Where have you read, on any post I have submitted, that I am closed minded, promote injustice or spurn empathy/sympathy? There is absolutely no subject that is taboo as far as I am concerned. I can and do approach any subject with an open mind. I don't blush and I don't quake. My children have always thanked me for being open minded. My friends come to me when they want the truth. They go to others when they want sugar coating. You may label someone as being unempathetic or unsympathetic when in fact that person is simply not an enabler. I fall into the category of a non enabler.
I have no data on the value agnostic or atheist views have helped or harmed the world. Actually that data, if it exists, means nothing to me. The remainder of your post is simply your opinion and interpretations, nothing more, nothing less. I don't care one way or the other how you feel about Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddha, Wicca or any other religion. If you have issues with religion, perhaps the Dalai Lama could be of assistance. Whatever your choice, you will not hear me slam you for your religious beliefs. I think you would be smart to do likewise.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 6:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: Estragon has no clue as to how any of us look at organized religion, but when he posted the things a person doesn't have to do to become a Christian which totally contradicted the bible, I couldn't just let that slide.

Estragon said "The Bible is only literature from the minds of men. It was written in allegory and metaphor, and can only be understood in the context of the times, places, and circumstances in which it was written. Unless one accepts this fact, he or she will never grasp the lessons that the Bible seeks to impart. People who are fundamentalists/literalists have done more damage in this world in the name of religion
that all atheists or agnostics combined." end quote

This is totally blaspheming the Holy Spirit. It doesn't matter whether Estragon or anyone else believes it or not, but the Bible is Gods word and obeying what it teaches is our only hope of getting to heaven. The Bible is just as relevant today as it was in the days it was written and it was inspired by God. It doesn't take a genius to understand the teaching of the Bible, but it does take study. The Bible was written over a period of about 1,600 years. It has 66 books and was written by about 40 different authors and not one contradiction. If you think there are contradictions, you need to keep studying, because God does not make mistakes.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 7:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: Yes, I agree with you. However, there comes a time when one must face the consequences of ones beliefs, whatever those beliefs may be. Those who choose to question, deny, blaspheme and reject teachings of Christianity, will experience the day of reckoning in what ever measure that is meant to be. So I leave them to their opinions and consequences. My courage allows changes for things within me. I can not change another. My wisdom allows me to know the difference between what I can and can not change. Wisdom tells me Estragon is as entrenched in his beliefs as I am in mine and nothing I say or do will ever alter that fact. I can talk/write a blue streak. I know my truth and for my peace of mind, I simply Let Go....and Let God!

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 7, 2009 at 10:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: you're correct as usual. He just rubbed me the wrong way, but I'll try to do better. I'm like you in that I don't care what others want to believe, but it does bother me greatly when someone tries to deminish God's word, but I know God will deal with these kind in his own way and in his own time. God doesn't need my help and I guess that's what you were really saying, so like I said in the beginning, you're correct.

Posted by justwingit (anonymous) on October 8, 2009 at 6:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

RG, don't let the TROLLS get to you. They're always trying to rub someone the wrong way. You have awesome views and alot of people agree with your comments. I haven't found one comment of yours or loyal americans that I didn't agree with. 'You' just tell it like a man!

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on October 8, 2009 at 10:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If rgodwin thinks that there are no contradictions in the Bible he must have never read the Bible, certainly he could never have taken a college-level course that studied the Bible. Consider the following:
God good to all, or just a few?
War or Peace?
Who is the father of Joseph?
Who was at the Empty Tomb?
Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
Which first, beasts or man?
The number of beasts in the ark
How many stalls and horsemen?
Is it folly to be wise or not?
Human vs. ghostly impregnation
The sins of the father
The bat is not a bird
Rabbits do not chew their cud
Snails do not melt
Fowl from waters or ground
Odd genetic engineering
The shape of the earth
Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt
Earth supported?
Heaven supported too
The hydrological cycle
Order of creation
Moses' personality
Righteous live?
Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?
Jesus' last words
Years of famine
Moved David to anger?
The genealogy of Jesus?
God be seen?
Cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious or kind, merciful, and good
Tempts?
Judas died how?
Ascend to heaven
What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?
How many time did the cock crow?
How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount
Does every man sin?
Who bought potter's field?
Who prophesied the potter's field?
Who bears guilt?
Do you answer a fool?
How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?
Marriage?
Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?
How many apostles were in office between the resurrection and ascension?
Judging
Good deeds
For or against?
Whom did they see at the tomb?
God change?
Destruction of cities (what said was Jeremiah was Zechariah)
Who's sepulchers?
Strong drink?
When second coming?
Solomon's overseers
The mother of Abijah
When did Baasha die?
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?
Who was Josiah's successor?
The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah
What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?
What did they give him to drink?
How long was Jesus in the tomb?

The contradictory passages for the above subjects can be seen here: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/j... (scroll down for all of the subjects)
continued.....

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on October 8, 2009 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Bible was not intended to be "The Word of God." The narrative voice in the text of the Bible is not God's but man's. The fact that the Bible has contradictions, or that it was written by man, does not take away from the truths that can be found in its texts. Neither do the disputes about the various translations or the choice of meaning of words that have several meanings. Also, remember the books in the Bible that most Christians use are not the only texts that existed. There are other books that didn't make it into the Bible, basically for political reasons.

rgodwin: Instead of obsessing over a book of literature, why not lead a life like Jesus led and stop acting like a jerk.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 8, 2009 at 8:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You poor atheist, I'm not even going to give you the pleasure of seeing you name in print from me, but you and everyone else who reads or writes here knows who you are. I don't know if I've ever felt more sorry for one individual in my life than I do you, but then I've never know a true atheist. You must be a very lonely person and you are digging a hole that you will never climb out of. Saying negative things about me doesn't phase me in the least, but blasphemy will get you the attention from a higher power that you really don't want. I think you are a very very small and sad person, and I will be sure and pray for you.

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on October 8, 2009 at 9:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon thanks for taking the time to put that information together. I think that people are often raised to trust in the stories they were taught from childhood and they seldom take the time to REALLY read these stories for themselves. These inconsistencies are perpetuated by parents who teach their children the same errors they were taught when they were young. When adults actually do read them, they tend to ignore those portions which don't reflect the watered-down versions they have grown up with. Preachers help maintain the ignorance of their flock by skirting around the unpleasant passages and stories in the Bible focusing on the same old passages such as John 3:16. People are told they should rely on FAITH rather than trust what they see with their own eyes. The Bible itself warns that we are not to trust in our ability to reason or understand (Proverbs 3:5). Why is it that children without fail inherit the precise religion of their parents and surrounding culture? I don't know of anyone who was born to Southern Baptist parents who are followers of Islam, Buddhist, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses etc.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 8, 2009 at 9:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Proverbs 3: 5-6 that was referenced in the previous post.

5.Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6, In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

I may be crazy, but I'm pretty sure that these verses are instructing us to trust and obey Gods word, instead of trying to reason something out that God has already given us the answers to in his word. So it just says that God is much smarter than man, but it doesn't say anywhere that the Bible isn't true and factual like an extreme minority on this site seem to believe. I also have no idea why Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:15 to Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. "If we weren't able to understand the Bible and if it wasn't truth, God would never have had Paul write this." If you liberal people weren't so sad, you would be funny." I just have nothing for you but pitty, because without faith anyone is hell bound on a bobsled.

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on October 8, 2009 at 11:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: Here is something you might like. Conservapedia.com rewrote the Bible to remove the "liberal bias" from the current translations. http://conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bi.... The rewritten, conservative Bible can be found here: http://conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bi.... Since the project is "wiki-like" maybe you can become an editor and change passages to conform to your right-wing, reactionary views.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 5:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you so much Estragon, but I don't think God needs me or anyone else messing up his perfection. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

People who care or are truly concerned need to focus their attention on what is actually said here and not to speculate about what we think ought to have been said. No detailed description is given of exactly how the Scriptures came to be God-breathed. We are given no clear indication of precisely what follows on from Scripture’s being inspired by God. What we are given is this: a very clear and emphatic statement concerning the use to which the God-breathed Scriptures are to be put. Scripture is “profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

The confused climate of modern thinking demands that three important points, based on 2 Timothy 3:16-17, are strongly and clearly emphasized:

(1) The words of God (Scripture) and the breath of God (the Spirit) belong together;

(2) The proper context for affirming the inspiration of Scripture is that of profiting from the Word;

(3) Profiting from the Word is grounded in the God-breathed character of Scripture.

(1) We may not separate the breath of God and the God-breathed Word without doing violence to both. This stress on both the words of God and the Spirit of God echoes the teaching of Jesus: “It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life” (John 6:63). Jesus contrasts “the spirit” and “the flesh”. He refuses to set “the spirit” and “His words” over against each other. For Jesus, there can be no true spirituality that is isolated from His words. His words are not mere words. They are “spirit and life”. Jesus held the words and the Spirit together., and so must we. There can be no true spirituality without a continuous and attentive listening to the Scriptures. There must be no barren assertion of Biblical inspiration which is devoid of the power of the Spirit.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 5:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

continued:
(2) There can be no profiting from the Word apart from the working of the Spirit. It is from the Word that the Spirit enables us to profit. The inspiration of the Scriptures is not locked in the past. The Word, which God has spoken, continues to be spoken to us today. The Spirit uses the words of Scripture to “teach us all things” (John 14:26). ‘His divine power … grants to us all things that pertain to life and godliness” (2 Peter 1:3). The Spirit brings to us the words of Scripture, declaring to us the things of Christ (John 16:15). Through the words of Scripture, the Spirit reproves, corrects and trains us in righteousness, leading us in the way of victory (John 16:8-10).

Through the Word and the Spirit, we are led into a future, bright beyond all imagining. It is not the dismal future of those who are preoccupied with the wrong kind of profit: “What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself?” (Luke 9:25). It is the glorious future of “the man of God … complete, equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:17).

(3) The Holy Spirit takes the initiative in addressing us with the God-breathed Word. He does not wait until we are ready to hear and understand all that He has to say to us. He does not wait until all our hesitations and reservations regarding Biblical inspiration have been overcome. He does not wait until we are able to give an adequate explanation of how the words of Scripture can be the Word of God. He speaks to us in all our uncertainty and confusion. “The Word of God is not fettered (or bound)” (2 Timothy 2:9) by our stuttering faith and meagre understanding.

The Holy Spirit, the Breath of Life, comes sweeping through us with the Word of Life. He proclaims Christ through the words of Scripture. This is the way in which He brings us to Christ: “faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ (or the Word of God)” (Romans 10:17).

Physically, we need breath. Spiritually, we need “every word that proceeds from the mouth of God” (Matthew 4:4). The God-breathed Scripture, spoken to us through the Breath of God, is the foundation for our profitable faith, so no as much as I appreciate your concern, I think I'll stick with God's written perfection.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 6:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

A few of those 'contradictions' I could explain.. but most it would take someone a lot more knowledgeable in
the Scriptures and Hebrew/Greek than I! But I have no doubt that they CAN be explained and justified.... because God doesn't 'make mistakes.' It's not a coincidence that 'this book' has survived intact...and Satan is still trying to get rid of it. He knows he can't so he instills 'doubt.' And there are those who take doubt & run with it. I'm one of those silly people who just take the WHOLE 'book' as truth because God said it and I believe it's His Word to us - all of it! For me, trusting in a Higher Power, whom I choose to call God, gives peace and direction. I could not help but smile broadly when the left-wing posters continued with their "knowledge about Scripture" gibberish. I actually checked and rechecked this thread numerous times yesterday waiting for the predictable "thanks for taking the time" or "how refreshing" opening line, that was surely to come and it did! You two remind me of Forrest Gump; you have some authority and knowledge on EVERYTHING in the world! Dealing with your 'vast, worldly, judgemental, arrogance and your need to argue just for the sake of arguing is a lot of time wasted on the part of believers. Your knowledge truly is limited and one day you will know just how unenlightened you are. For a period, I walked your same doubting path in my life. Three major events occurred in my life that left NO DOUBT there is a God and He is watching over me. You can doubt all you want. By the same token I am allowed to believe in my way, all I want! Just for the record, I know several people born to 'Southern Baptist' parents who are not Baptist. Two cousins are now Mormon, one married into the Jewish faith, more converted to Catholicism than I can count and one converted to Buddhism while living in Asia. Your point was? Remember the story of casting pearls before swine.' Shake the dust from your feet and move on! Neither of these people are worth our collective effort. They have each other, what more could they possibly need?

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 6:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: I waited on the rock dweller also yesterday. That was a great post and truer words were never spoken.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Loyal, Rgodwin, et al: We have shared with God the bitter taste of witnessing the satanic virulence from The Blind Ones, and it shakes us to realize the reality of the God haters...we still have generational Cain's among us as witnessed by their posts.
Satan knows the Bible inside and out - he is the Master of Lies, Seduction and Hate for human beings.

Will the Blind Ones remain in their darkness, until it's their time to be in God's Light? Will they go towards this Light or turn away from It into their comfort zone for all eternity? It remains their choice when that dreadful time comes. God have mercy on them.

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: God didn't say it, man wrote it. Unlike the Koran, which was supposedly dictated by God to Mohammed, the Bible was never said to be spoken by God, but a compilation of texts written by humans who were believed to be inspired by God (but aren't we all?).

As for rgodwin, his rant is so illogical as to defy rebuttal. He quotes extensively from the Book of Timothy, which in its text says it was written by the Apostle Paul. However, since the early 19th Century, Biblical scholars have concluded that the 2 letters to Timothy couldn't have been Paul's writing as the texts were written long after Paul's death and the syntax and grammar are not that used by Paul. And, what's with this God's Breath? Sounds like he need a Certs mint to clear up all that halitosis.

Finally, poor dear Shamrock must have read too many Harry Potter novels. His religion is obsessed with witches and warlocks, the product of either hallucinations or severe psychosis.

Our creator gave us a brain and the powers of reason. Let's put those to use and stop babbling in nonsense. That is the way to honor the Creator, not submitting to beliefs that are complete fantasies.

Posted by purelogic (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 10:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

So have we all come to a concensus? A compromise? Are we closer to seeing it all through the same eye of the beholder? :)

No. And probably never will. Others will not lead us to their views on religion. We must lead ourselves in the "right" direction.

Arguing religion is like the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object. Isn't it better to just go around the wall?

Posted by lookeyhere (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I see Obama won the nobel peace prize. He joins Carter and Gore on the list as weiners of the prize.Now these people have done absolutely nothing for this country.Well anyway this prize must be a liberal prize.Thats why Obama is the big weiner.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 6:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

purelogic: You are correct; continuing to write about ones interpretations regarding religion is a waste of time. We each have our belief system and opinions, therefore nothing else matters.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 6:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Little man, I'm going to leave you alone. I knew when I took the time this morning to answer your post, that what I was typing was way over your head, that's why I put those little numbers out by the topics so you could keep up. The Bible does say that we should not cast pearls before swine, so I do apologize.

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 7:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Rgodwin: Have you heard of THE GOOGLE? This is where you copied and pasted your 'posting' from http://charlescameron.wordpress.com/cate..., control F will take you to the exact point in the document where you starting copying. So now we can add plagiarism to the list of sins you are guilty of, :-).

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 7:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Worm, did you ever see me write anything that says that everything I type comes from my own mind. I don't write things that I don't agree with, but I have used information just like every person alive. You should go back and Google everything I've written and see if you can find anything else. I've even used Bible verses out of the Bible before. You are such an idiot to think that you are then only one who knows about Google. I really have to admit that it amazes me that someone who claims to be so educated can be so stupid, but it doesn't surprise me at all when I consider the source!

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 7:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I knew when I took the time this morning to answer your post, that what I was typing was way over your head, that's why I put those little numbers out by the topics so you could keep up." You said "I knew, I was typing, that is why I put those little numbers," emphasis on the I. CHECKMATE! Now who is a little man?

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 7:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Worm: like I said, you're an idiot and I've already told you that all I feel for you is pitty! I just hope and pray that you are not in my family's gene pool.

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 8:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Poor rgodwin. Busted by the B'WORM! Thanks, B'Worm, for showing us that the Emperor has no clothes. Now would he please wrap a towel around himself, he is grossing us out.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 8:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Fully dressed.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 9, 2009 at 9:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I want to apologize to everyone for my part is this silly slug fest. I don't know how we got here from a topic that was "Celebs, prove you actually ‘care’, but we did. I know my part started when someone trashed the Bible, but I should have remained silent and let them hang themselves, but it's hard sometime to just stay silent when someone is trashing God's word. I'll try to do better on here because I know God is in control and doesn't need my help, but in person I will always defend his word and that doesn't mean with violence.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 10, 2009 at 6:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If you want to play a game of gotcha, you know how to contact each other anonymously. The huge point missed in this back and forth bantering is.....bookworm reads Charles Cameron!! Now that is progress! I applaud her ability for remembering what she read and exactly where to find the article. You Are among the believers! Perhaps heed the suggestion given by another poster and friend....."why not live a life like Jesus led"? May I add, we can all be kind!

Posted by MoreCowBell (anonymous) on October 10, 2009 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This was a "letter to the editor" in a Jackson , MS newspaper. I looked it up and it is legitimate.

During my last shift in the ER, I had the pleasure of evaluating a patient with a shiny new gold tooth, multiple elaborate tattoos and a new cellular telephone equipped with her favorite R&B tune for a ringtone.

Glancing over the chart, one could not help noticing her payer status: Medicaid.

She smokes a costly pack of cigarettes every day and, somehow, still has money to buy beer.

And our president expects me to pay for this woman's health care?

Our nation's health care crisis is not a shortage of quality hospitals, doctors or nurses. It is a crisis of culture - culture
in which it is perfectly acceptable to spend money on vices
while refusing to take care of one's self or, heaven
forbid, purchase health insurance.

Life is really not that hard. Most of us reap what we sow.

STARNER JONES,MD

Jackson , MS

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on October 10, 2009 at 11:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: I know how you feel about being silent when someone offends or challenges. Sure enough though, the more they talk, the more rope they use! Some people have such low self esteem, they can only be lifted from their misery when they play their game of gotcha. They only feel good, when they try to make another feel bad. Sad isn't it?

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on October 10, 2009 at 11:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican, it's very sad.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on October 10, 2009 at 1:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Loyal and Rgodwin - it's also very embarassingly immature.

Posted by justwingit (anonymous) on October 10, 2009 at 4:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Morecowbell, this person can afford health insurance.
Does any one realize that if you smoke a pack of cigs and drink a 6 pack of beer a day that you spend about $330.00 a month just for those two vices? Now is that a wake up call or what?

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on October 10, 2009 at 7:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Justwingit: That's a very good example you've made. That alone should cover the insurance.

I wonder what's happened to pipe smoking? And making your own beer and wine?
That's what my people did. And they were never sick or on pharma drugs - lived to be in their late 80's and 90's. My mother is 87 years old and fit as a fiddle - doesn't even need glasses and has all but one of her teeth! Both my grandmothers were healthy women, one living to 92 and in her right mind.

My grandfather smoked a cigar after Sunday dinner and on special ocassions.
He had alot going on in his cellar. The cellar was where he made his root beer, and beer, kept the potatoes he grew in the potato bin, and apples in the apple bin for the winter/spring months, and made his famous picalilli preserves. He had his chickens in the chicken coop that laid fresh eggs.

My grandmother made the best pies - apple, rhubarb, blueberry and raspberry when in season. These were all homegrown. I remember she would chew spruce gum, and every morning put blackstrap molasses on her toast - she said it made you sing better. It apparently did, for I can hear her singing in the kitchen as she did her daily routines.

How have we become so weak and sickly?

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on October 11, 2009 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

justwingit: You are correct. Posters have pointed out time and time again that some people make choices and then whine that they can't afford insurance.
Shamrock: What is a picalilli perserve?

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on October 11, 2009 at 5:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: Picalilli is a relish made from finely chopped (or food processor now) green tomatoes, sweet red peppers, lots of onions, small cabbage. salt, vinegar light brown sugar and pickling spices. Grandpa made his own spice combination.
Spruce gum is the sap resin from spruce trees - it's healthy for your gums and teeth and is antiseptic. (it's not exactly pleasant for a kid to chew)
We drank Moxey - yuck - but Grandpa's homemade root beer was to die for.
Thanks for asking...it's swell to bring back those kind of memories - and we were never sick!

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on October 12, 2009 at 8:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey guys, check out Thugg4life on Nobel this a.m.! LMAO (laughedmyarsoff)

Posted by captaindon (anonymous) on November 7, 2009 at 6:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If they say this is such a good plan let the Hollywood celebrities and the Politicians use it and leave the rest of us alone.