Posted by Patrick (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I support your gathering of first hand knowledge about the Afghanistan war. This is the real war on terrorism and the USA and our NATO allies should stick it out as long as it takes to eliminate the terrorist threat to the people of Afghanistan. If we can't eliminate it there, we can't eliminate it anywhere else either.

We certainly wasted a lot of time and resources fighting the Bush war in Iraq. If these resources could have been used in Afghanistan we would have made far greater progress to date. I would ask that you answer the calls, in Washington, for withdrawal from this war with a strong voice.

Posted by Bluebelle51 (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The purpose of Bin Laden's attack on 9/11 was to draw us into a protracted war in Afganistan. (The war in Iraq was an added bonus even he hadn't calculated. ) As long as we stay in Afganistan, Bin Laden is winning the war.

Posted by alabamachris (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As a Vet, when I hear some one say we wasted money and resources on "Bush's War in Iraq" it make me sick. No life lost in the "fight for one's country" is a waste, Patrick. Those lost in Iraq were sent there by President Bush WITH THE APPROVAL OF CONGRESS. Read that last part again Patrick and then call them a waste again Patrick. Bluebelle51 you are clueless so I won't waste my time with your stupid statement.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 12:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BB51: How is Bin Laden winning if America stays in Afghanistan? Please elaborate.
Patrick: Have you served in the military? I want to respond to your comments about Iraq. My comments would be different to a person with military experience military than to a civilian. Regardless of which catagory you fit, there is one thing I will say; Terrorism is NOT only a threat to Afghani citizens, it is a global threat! If the war on terror is lost in Afghanistan, it will be lost because of DC...NOT our military!!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

alabamachris: THANK YOU for your service! I agree 100% with your post. I want to plow into any person who calls the war in Iraq a "waste"! If Patrick has a military background, then shame on him for his "waste" remark. If he is civilian, then I can chalk it up to being, shall I say, "uninformed" and clueless as to where the rubber meets the road!!

Posted by lookeyhere (anonymous) on September 16, 2009 at 10:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Boy jimmy carter sucks! I just seen an interview with him.I got to say jimmy carter and obama are so liberal it hurts.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks LoyalAmerican and alabamachris for your posts.

Jimmy Carter... "The Useless One"

Posted by realist (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 9:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Both these wars are a waste at this point, and that's the opinion of someone who has been on the ground in Iraq. I've seen good friends die horribly and more often than not it was from a bomb in the street rather than enemy bullets. You can't win that type of war with manpower and brute force, and both the wars we are in have come down to that.

We've done all we can for both these countries. It's time to stop throwing away American lives and conduct the war on terror in a differnt, more effective way. It's been almost three years since I was in Iraq and even at that time most of the marines and soldiers there felt we were spinning our wheels and wasting lives for little to no gain. In talking to friends who are still there and in Afghanistan, that sentiment has only grown over those years.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I remember that the Bush Family and the Saudis', Bin Laden's Family, had business connections. Back then, I remember it was all about the Oil deals. Has anything changed?
LoyalAmerican or rgodwin: can you elaborate, or was I dreaming?
P.S. I can't get this out of my head - Bin Laden goes to Europe for kidney dialysis. How long can one live on dialysis? He is most likely dead, and is kept "alive" in messages to us.
Corrections from either of you - no libs please - if needed.
Best thoughts.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

realist: If you were military while in Iraq, I thank you for your service while there. Non career military do not seem to have the same understanding of war and what it takes to win as do their career counterparts. I take immense offense to your comment regarding our military efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. You wrote,"stop throwing away American lives". How is a life thrown away on the battlefield? Your comment besmirches the honor , pride and dignity of those who have given all to their country. You state that, "It's been almost three years since I was in Iraq". Whether you were there as a civilian or military I am happy that you are no longer in Iraq. I challenge your remark, "most of the marines and soldiers there felt we were spinning our wheels and wasting lives for little to no gain." I will say loud and clear to you the same thing Mr. Wilson said to Obama, YOU LIE! I have two sons, one of whom is on tour in Iraq now. He also served in Afghanistan. The other son has served 2 tours in Iraq and one tour in Kuwait. One is a Staff Sergeant the other a Lieutenant Colonel, they both are career military and they understand the scope of what they are fighting for! They see the wonderful results for their efforts! Women and children having normal day to day living. The end of Hussein and his sons' brutality! Children seeing that Americans ARE the good guys and will carry those visions into adulthood and hopefully make changes for their generation! And for the record, while you are, "talking to friends who are still there and in Afghanistan", please remind them they are in an ALL volunteer military and can get out any time. As a PROUD military mom, I do not want some half devoted, disgruntled, besmirching the honor of another, slacker watching the back for either of my sons!

Posted by alabamachris (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at noon (Suggest removal)

Thank you for your support of our military LoyalAmerican. You deserve our gratitude for raiseing such fine sons. Not that kids that don't join the military are not fine kids, in my opinion, those kids that chose to serve in the military have a special quality about them. Again, Thank You for being a supportive Proud military Mom. I am PROUD of you and your sons.

Posted by Patrick (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 12:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For all the name Sayers, I am a disabled Marine, however, I wasn’t shot in the head and retained the ability to think for myself. I don’t need Fox News to tell me how to think. I support the men who fight the war, not the war. The Bush boys lied to get the American People and Congress to get support for his war, although most of our allies were not fooled. Just like Vietnam, when a lie is the foundation of your involvement, the final outcome is meaningless. It will be interesting to see what strongman rules Iraq in 10 years since we removed strongman Saddam.

We were attack from Afghanistan. Respond against the one who attack you not some random bystander. The Taliban are using terror tactics to keep get from supporting the Afghan government. I this is allowed to be successful the tactics will spread to other areas of the world, including the USA.

The Jimmy Carter comment must have struck home to many locals. If the shoe fits wear it. Explain to yourself why only 10% of Alabama Whites voted for Obama?

Posted by Patrick (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

alabamachris
You were correct in the statement, "APPROVAL OF CONGRESS". We replaced our congressman in 2008. I would agree we should now replace both our senators with younger persons. Someone more in touch with reality and not mired in the past failures. Do you support this?

Posted by Patrick (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican
I thank you children for the participation in the military. My sons served 4 years and decided to get out. We wasted 50,000 lives to find Vietnam was a waste. Since Bush served his time partying in Montgomery instead of serving his country during that war, he could not understand how war should be the last resort. As my comments state, some times a man has to fight, but not with random bystanders.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 12:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Vietnam War defeat for U.S. = Lyndon B. Johnson, traitor to our soldiers and country.

Posted by realist (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican, how dare you question my honesty and patriotism. I am a young man and for the rest of my life I'm going to have to live with the lasting physical injuries caused by my last tour in Iraq and even worse I have to live with the memories of the things I did and the things I saw. I cradled my best friend's head in my arms while he died with most of his lower half blown off. The next day Iraqis spit on me.

Sadam Hussein was indeed a brutal dictator and the Iraqi people are better off without him, however their freedom should have been bought with their blood, not mine and not my friends'. Afghanistan is just as bad, we overthrew the Taliban but the new government is just as corrupt and terrorist still thrive in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Every day I read the news hoping not to but expecting to see the names of men and women I served with who have been killed in one of these countries on the other side of the world.

I was a proud soldier and am still a patriot, however, I am not blind and I have seen things you cannot begin to imagine and dealt with things no one who has never been in combat and had to fight for their life can begin to fathom. Just because I disagree with the current situation does not mean I didn't give 100% every day when I was there. I shed blood sweat and tears to protect my squad and my country for over two years in that hell hole. I have friends who have volunteered for 5 tours. I would still be there if I was able.

I'm sure your sons are fine men who have accomplished much, but you need to look at the reality of the situation. Every day American men and women are putting their lives at risk and often times dying to provide freedom and security for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, many of whom hate us even though we liberated their countries (not saying they all do, but I can give you plenty of examples of those who do). It's time the people of those countries step up and take responsibility for control of their own fates and show the world they are really ready to step into this century and fight extremist terrorists.

(continued)

Posted by realist (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

(continued from above)

I joined the military to fight terrorism and protect American lives and the country I love, as did most of my friends still in the military who feel the same as me. That is not what's going on now. We are baby sitting two countries that can't successfully govern themselves and trying to stop people who have been killing each other for well over 2,000 years from continuing to kill each other. I'm a good soldier who followed orders, but I can also think for myself and I've seen the truth of what's going on in the Middle East.

I've fought for Americans to have freedom of speech, but in your case I really truly regret that decision since you don't seem to appreciate it and would rather question my honor and that of my friends since we don't all agree with you. Until you've personally been to Iraq and fought for your life while killing the enemy and watched men under your command die in battle and get blown up by IEDs set up by the very people we're supposed to have liberated, I think you should keep your opinion about other people's service to yourself.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 1:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Realist: Thank you for your service - do not attack LoyalAmerican. SHE has been having to answer liberal whiners who have posted on other threads in this newspaper, desparaging our military. Check her postings! You should've told her from the beginning who you were.

We should all be united, One voice, Once heart.
Just now, Jared Monti was given the highest military award for his heroism in Afghanistan. You no doubt have a Purple Heart. Thank you again for your patriotism. Please don't let yourself be bitter - be proud.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 1:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick and Realist: A mother goes with her sons to war. Her heart bleeds with theirs. Her tears, fears and prayers unite those sons to her day and night. She does not have to be there physically - while her sons fight for freedom wherever slavery and barbarism exists.
Thank you LoyalAmerican.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick: First, I thank you for your service to America.
Congress had the same intel as Bush. They, congress, voted to go to Iraq. As I have stated before, I don't care what got America into Iraq, the important thing is...we got there. I read so much about the liberals calling conservatives, ungiving and selfish. Going into Iraq proves exactly how giving and self-LESS I want my government to be. I detest oppression of women. I detest any environment that does not allow a child to be a child! I embrace Natural Law!! Iraqi citizens are covered under Natural Law also. Americans do not have the sole right to this law! How can anyone turn a blind eye to the suffering of the Iraqi people when Saddam was in power? I ask the same question for the people of Darfur and their misery!
Regarding Afghanistan; we were not attacked from Afghanistan. The terrorists trained there. We were attacked by Muslim radicals coming from all over the mid east and beyond! Hence the global war on terror. Or as your president says, "an overseas contingency" ! Oh barf! His game plan minimizes our strength and says to the world to join us in a round of Kum Ba Ya! Hopefully with the destruction of the poppy fields in Afghanistan, financial resources for the Taliban and Al Qaeda will cease.
Lastly, you comment regarding Jimmy Cater. As one of the 90% who did not vote for Obama, I will tell you my reason! HE DOES NOT HAVE THE EXPERIENCE TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE MOST POWERFUL NATION ON EARTH! It had nothing to do with the color of his skin! It had to do with MY perception of him being unqualified for the job, due to lack of national and international experience! AND for the record, who cares what Jimmy Carter says? His presidency was a dismal failure yet he runs his yap trying to tell others how to do their job. The only way Carter's comment "struck home to many locals" is the fact that he is an embarrassment to America, but more importantly, he is an embarrassment to the South!!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 2:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

realist: How dare YOU for besmirching the HONOR of the American military men and women who have made the ultimate sacrifice! What makes your remark even more painful is that you once wore the uniform! Do not lose sight of the fact that YOU volunteered to serve. Whatever you experienced is what you signed up for. War is horrible, everyone agrees! No one signs up to fight with the expectation of everyone fighting fairly! War is Hell on earth. You are not the first nor will you be the last to cradle a dying friend while in combat. I am thankful you were there to do so and so is that soldiers mother. Horrors of war is not unique to Iraq or Afghanistan. Just ask a Viet Nam veteran. The Iraqi's spat on you, how about the Viet Nam veterans returning home and having their fellow AMERICANS spit in their faces? The difference between you and those veterans, is that most of those warriors were FORCED through the draft to go to war! Not one syllable I wrote questioned your patriotism. I challenged your remark insinuating that "most of the marines and soldiers there felt we were spinning our wheels and wasting lives for little to no gain." I stand by my initial remark that this is not true. You may have data to back up your claim as you see it, I have data to backup my claim as I see it. Where you and I part company is over you bismirching those who gave all. I am married to a battle hardened soldier. His most used phrase is "suck it up". That is exactly what you do. Either suck it up or move on. I will tell you what he has told thousands of soldiers he has led: if you want sympathy, you'll find it in the dictionary between sh~~ and syphillis. If there are any whiners in today's military, get out if you are not totally committed. We don't deal in sympathy or patty cake in our home when it comes to a military mission! It is always support the mission and the personnel. Realist, I give you honor and respect for serving and I expect those who lost their life to be given the same!

Posted by realist (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Shamrock, I don't care if she has 10 sons in the military nor do I care if she argues with "liberal whiners" online constantly. When you say things like "As a PROUD military mom, I do not want some half devoted, disgruntled, besmirching the honor of another, slacker watching the back for either of my sons!" to a vet about him and his friends still in the military you can't expect him not to respond with some venom.

I don't go around advertising my status as a veteran. I don't even like to talk about it. Helping Iraq and Afghanistan is all well and good, but we have a responsibility not to mire our military in an unending war with intractable locals who snipe us and blow us up with suicide bombs and IEDs. Dying on the battlefield in combat to protect the innocent or defend America is one thing. Having your legs blown off because you tried to move a dead goat off the road is another (saw that one happen).

We are not fighting on battlefields in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are being blown up and sniped by small, loosely organized groups of both native and foreign extremists. These people observe our patrols and setup bombs on roads they think we will use and try to kill or maim as many of us as they can.

You can't drive an armored cavalry division into their base and take it over because they don't have a base. You can't assult their leader and decapitate their organization because they don't have a leader. You can't destroy their materiel with bombers and Tomahawk missiles because they operate out of homes in villages and towns or even in vans and cars. They often video tape the bombings and provide this to Arab media and use it for recruiting purposes. The more destruction and bodies in the street, the better.

Iraq and Afghanistan are definitely better off now, but it's time for them to step up and take over their own security. If they want to keep fighting let them fight their own countrymen for a while. We can still effectively fight the war on terror with special forces and good intelligence without the current cost of American lives and treasure.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 3:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Realist: you need to have addressed this to LoyalAmerican, if you have the brass to.

Posted by realist (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You misconstrue my words. I never besmirched the honor of anyone, you questioned mine and that of men and women who still serve but don't want to throw away their lives recklessly. You need to crawl off your high horse for a second and read what I'm saying instead of trumpeting on about how you support the troops and how great your family is.

Every time I saw our soldiers laying dead in the street it tore me apart and it still does, but I don't want your sympathy and never asked for it. All I want is for our country to use our military wisely and stop sending brave young men and women to die in these countries when there is a better way to accomplish the mission. Let Iraq and Afghanistan handle their own security and if there is a need we have ways to handle taking out terrorists without constantly exposing our military to the dangers they currently face.

How many American lives will it take for you to think that maybe this current way isn't the best way to do things? this year almost 200 Americans have lost their lives in Afghanistan. What have we gained from their sacrifice? The result of the elections there are highly questionable and probably fraudulent, terrorists still hide out in the mountains there and in Pakistan and profit from record poppy crops grown to produce heroin, and we still don't know where Bin Laden is. I wouldn't say that things are going swimmingly.

I put my life in danger every day when I was in Iraq and there are still thousands and thousands of soldiers there and in Afghanistan doing the same thing but things don't seem to be getting much better there than they have been since we overthrew the Taliban and Hussein. That's why it's wasting their lives. If we were fighting a tangible enemy, or heck, maybe even if we were making progress on keeping those two countries safe, it would be worth fighting for but currently that is not the case.

Posted by realist (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I had a seperate comment for her, as you might have noticed, Shamrock. I'm not afraid of anyone on the internet! :)

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Realist: Thank you for your service to our country, (I'm one of the liberals they are referencing) of course everyone who doesn't agree with them they call liberals. I agree with everything you have said on this forum. My husband is a veteran and he for sure doesn't agree with her either. Don't let LA get you down, she seems to be a very pompous individual. I think someone else on here once accused her of self aggrandizement, that seems pretty accurate.
LoyalAmerican: I feel sorry for you. :-(

Posted by Patrick (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 3:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Shamrock
Where were you?

Vietnam War defeat for U.S. = Lyndon B. Johnson, traitor to our soldiers and country.

Nixon pulled us out, not Johnson.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Realist: You can direct your comments about me to me! You stated that people you know, STILL serving in a war zone are saying, "we were spinning our wheels and wasting lives for little to no gain." My comment stating that, "I do not want some half devoted, disgruntled, besmirching the honor of another, slacker watching the back for either of my sons" stands as written. However, it was directed to those who are not devoted to the mission as you so stated! You are no longer part of the mission and have no responsibility to watch the back of those in a war zone. My comment was directed solely at those who apparently, have lost heart and drive for the mission at hand. There is not another person walking who supports veterans more than I. But I lose respect for anyone, especially a veteran, when the dignity and honor of a fallen soldier's sacrifice is so cheapened by the words "wasting lives". That is out of the realm decency and compassion! By the way, you don't advertise that you are a veteran....you embrace it!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bookworm: Please save your pity. You have never answered one question about anything I have submitted to you so, I don't have much to say other than ask you to tell your husband that I appreicate his service to our country
:)

Posted by Patrick (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LA
I am an old man, but the administration was certainly the most worthless in my lifetime. In spite of continued, high dollar propaganda from the far right, Obama has accomplished more meaningful reforms in 6 months than the previous bunch did in 8 years. It is your privilege to disagree with his ideas, but at least he has come forth with some ideas to solve the nation’s problems.

1) Get us out of the Bush recession
2) Reform healthcare to provide affordable, quality healthcare for every citizen
3) Create an energy policy other than “Drill, Drill, Drill”
4) Mend our relationships with our allies to improve intelligence sharing
5) Shore up social security for long time solvency
6) Balance the budget

Many small changes made during the last 8 years must be undone to accomplish these programs and I am sure the wealthy who benefited from the Bush boys will spend mega $ on advertising to protect their enterprises. The trickle down economic programs have resulted in the smallest middle class since 1800 in this nation. Many more poor and slightly more wealthy. The policies of the right, I supported initially, have been a failure. We must try something different to save the stature of this nation. Get off your high horse and help the current administration make reforms to rather than criticizing everything they suggest but offering no solutions of your own.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

realist: I am not arguing with you battle plans, tactics, policy, progress or anything remotely related. My issue with you, and the resulting flurry of posts, centers solely on your comment regarding, "spinning our wheels and wasting lives for little to no gain." How have I misconstrued your words? I agree with much of what you have said regarding elections, letting countries involved handle their own security, etc. You ask what have we gained for the sacrifice for the 200 military, you stated, that have died in Afghanistan this year? Maybe you need yo take the word "we" out of the question. How about saying those 200 heroes volunteered to serve and died doing something THEY believed in! How about saying THEY wanted to make a difference and were willing to DIE trying to make that difference. You insist on using the word "waste" as in the last post you wrote, "doing the same thing but things don't seem to be getting much better there than they have been since we overthrew the Taliban and Hussein. That's why it's wasting their lives." OK, you win; it is agreed, your service was wasted. But not one life given in battle has been wasted!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 4:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry Patrick, No can do!

Posted by realist (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 4:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"OK, you win; it is agreed, your service was wasted. But not one life given in battle has been wasted!"

So those folks are better off having been blown up half a world away while trying to protect the very people who blew them up than they would be if they were at home with their families? Sorry, but I don't buy that.

I have never made a disparraging remark about the soldiers who died, that is how you misconstrue my words. They died serving their country, which is noble and gallant. They made the ultimate sacrifice in the service of their country, however, the leaders of their country could have better served them by helping ensure their sacrifice was for a worthwhile cause. That's my point, which seems to keep eluding you.

The lives of the American people are our greatest commodity, and if you honestly believe they have never been carelessly wasted due to bad decisions made by government and even commanders then you are living in a dream world.

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 4:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick: You might be old but you obviously possess wisdom :-)

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 5:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

realist: You simply do not get it!

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 5:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick: Please take each of the 6 points you listed and elaborate on Obama's solution. Be specific. What has he done to solve each of these? Do not blame Bush. Do not blame conservatives, etc. Don't whine about what a mess the country is in... just tell me exactly what Obama has done.

Posted by realist (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 6:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Then please explain because I've clearly laid out a logical reason for my perspective based on personal experience and information you can see nightly on the news. You've not said anything that wasn't empty rhetoric and now that you are resulting to ad hominem statements that shows me you don't have a leg to stand on, you just don't want to admit I might be right.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 6:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Realist: was your last post meant for me?

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 7:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

realist: I have no idea who you are, but if you served as you say, I appreciate and admire you for your service. I can even understand the anger that you have in your heart from seeing your friends die, but you are totally wrong about LoyalAmerican. I don't know either of you, but there is one thing that I do know and that is that there is not a more patriotic, freedom loving American that writes in these blogs than LoyalAmerican. If you go back and read all of here post, you will find that out for yourself. If I had been President when 911 happened I would have done everything in my power just like we did, short of nuke them to try to end it quickly. I would probably have been open to that, but we are America and America just doesn't do something like that lightly. The Bush administration had the same intelligence that the Clinton administration and had and I personally could care less if they had weapons of mass destruction after we were attacked on 911. The bookworm came to your defense, but this is help that I don't even believe you would want if you go back and read the things she has written. George Bush did a lot of things that I didn't agree with, but pursuing the war on terror I still support 100%. I don't know much about war strategy and if there is a better way, I'm all for it, but we still have an all volunteer military the last time I checked. I bet our soldiers wished there was another way on D-day when they stormed the beach at Normandy, but they kept fighting and won. It's like LoyalAmerican said, "war is hell." I hope this war can be finished soon and we can all live in peace and harmony from now on, but that will never happen. The Jokes we have in the White House and congress put our country in more danger every day! Patrick, I'm like WAtidefan, I would like to see a list of Obama's accomplishments. I believe will all my heart that Obama hates this country and he's doing everything in his power to destroy it. Jimmy Carter was the biggest embarrassment to this nation until Obama was elected and he has embarrassed and done more to harm this nations safey and freedom than Jimmy Carter has done in a lifetime!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 7:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

realist: Here we go 'round the mulberry bush...
First, may I ask how long you were active duty?
What type of ad hominem are you using for the basis of your last sentence? Empty rhetoric? No, I think I have stated very effectively that I take issue with your statement regarding "wasting lives for little to no gain". If you think it is "empty rhetoric" for me to stand firm for my belief that NO military life lost on the battlefield is wasted, then you are one misguided individual.

I ask you to revisit your remark, second paragraph, first sentence of your 4:50 post. Does that not sound a bit strange? If one does not want to be placed in harms way...DO NOT join the military!! That is a simple stategy for self preservation! Your third sentence, second paragraph of the same post is the screamer. That rationale is twisted at best and deserves no comment. No, nothing you have said has eluded me. You appear not to possess the type of military mind and inner instinct and drive that career guys need to keep them in service for the long haul. Those men and women are there for the mission, end of story. Sort of the old military adage, "It is not for you to reason why, it is for you to do or die".
I wish you well realist! I hope any injuries you sustained while on active duty will mend and you can carry on with your life and be very prosperous and happy. Be proud to be a veteran. Just try to remember that no military life lost is for naught!
In today's military, they died doing what they chose to do and volunteered for; and they died with honor, dignity and the respect of millions of Americans!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 8:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: I am still reeling from the announcement today that Obama shut down our European Missile Defense Shield. That sealed the deal for me. There is NOTHING Obama can do that I will support. He effectively gave the international salute to our European allies! That one act, proves to me beyond all others, that he is determined to destroy America and weaken us beyond repair! This nation better get behind this issue and forget party lines. He served up Europe to Russia and Russia is going to serve up America to Iran..... Watch the fall out! This is the most horrific stunt he could pull! The implications are devastating! Now it is left up to Israel. God be with them! And... God Save America!

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 8:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RGodwin: The things I have written, YOU have got to be kidding me. This from a person who as I understand it for many months was writing the great majority of his posts while he was on the clock at his work place. Want me to go back and reiterate the many derogatory things you have said to people on this forum? Nahhhhh, it would take me all night. You are a typical hypocrite. How self righteous of you to be sitting there at work typing away telling people what a great American you are. At my company they would consider that stealing. Actually, come to think of it I bet they would at yours too. You talked about hard work paying off in some of your previous posts why don't you take your own advice. I already had a low opinion of you but when I found out what you were doing...........well you've shown yourself to be a low quality person. You have no credibility.
LoyalAmerican: I still have not forgotten that your answer to my dilemma concerning what my son might do for health insurance when he graduates from college next year was and I quote "get your son on welfare." Remember months ago when we were arguing about the EFFCA Bill......I think that I have drawn pretty accurate conclusions about the type of person you are and what you stand for. While I am sure that you would say the same about me, you are nobody I would ever want to associate myself with.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 8:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well said, LoyalAmerican.
Patrick... Patrick... Patrick... are you there?
Here is a little news flash for you. Re: mending relationships with our allies. Might want to check today's news. It seems that Obama has kicked Poland and the Czech Republic to the curb by scraping the missile defense shield plans. This announcement comes just days after Russia announces that they will put no additional pressure on Iran. So, basically, the US will get nothing out of this except that Obama has surrendered to Putin. The logic behind the decision? VP Biden says that Iran isn't a threat. Really? According to an AP report, senior officials at the International Atomic Energy Agency are in agreement that Iran has the ability to make a nuclear bomb and is on the way to developing a missile system capable of carrying an atomic bomb. So, Patrick, just how is Obama mending relationships with our allies?

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 8:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iamabookworm: I have more credibility with the people that count than you will ever have and I don't know of a thing that I've written that I don't still stand behind, so no I don't guess I'm kidding. You have no idea what my job consist of even though you and at least one more seem to be really curious. I've told you before, if there is anything you want to know, all you have to do is ask. I wish I was just a little curious about you, but nothing you've ever had to say interest me in the least other that I just wonder how anyone could be so far to the left that they can't even have a rational thought. You are amusing though, I have to give you that.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 8:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

iamabookworm: Here is a suggestion. You can pay for your son's insurance until he finds a job and works the probationary period, if there is one. Or, he can purchase private insurance himself until he has worked the time required to be covered by insurance. Private insurance for a single male (I'm assuming he isn't married) isn't outrageous at all. I know because my son has private insurance. Having tax payers pay for it under ObamaCare is not the answer that is acceptable to me and many, many other Americans.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 9:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bookworm: Please put my previous comment regarding welfare and your son in proper context.
Considering the "glowing" conclusion you have apparently drawn about Obama.....well bookworm , I regret to inform you, that causes me to give no value to the conclusion you have drawn about me! And no you are wrong, I associate with many different people; some who have profoundly different views from mine. I actually invite, every 3-4 months, into my home, for dinner, one of the most flaming liberals you can imagine! Politics are off limits while he is here. But, when we are on neutral ground, we both go for the throat. I can have a very spirited discussion, yet let it end at the door. By the way, as of this moment, you have never answered one question I have asked of you. I am still waiting for your answer on how you have helped people on a lower socio economic level! I am sorry to hear all your name calling tonight. You usually are more well-behaved.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 9:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: Patrick is not coming....
May I play the game and give specifics on what Obama has done?
1) Get us out of the Bush recession-OBAMA...HE...........
2) Reform healthcare to provide affordable, quality healthcare for every citizen OBAMA...HE.....
3) Create an energy policy other than “Drill, Drill, Drill”OBAMA....HE....
4) Mend our relationships with our allies to improve intelligence sharing OBAMA..... HE.....
5) Shore up social security for long time solvency OBAMA..HE....
6) Balance the budget OBAMA....HE....

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on September 17, 2009 at 10:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: Welcome to the game. You are obviously a varsity player and have earned a starting position. I really didn't expect Patrick to show up. I'm pretty sure Patrick is the poster who made comments about all the civil liberties that were taken away by President Bush. I asked him to name one liberty he lost. No answer... ever. Could it be a trait of liberals to not answer questions? I ask.... you decide.

Posted by Patrick (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 2:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't question the patriotism of my fellow commenter’s. I don't expect to find many anti-American activists in small town, rural Alabama. I often wonder if some of the commenter’s think for themselves or simply repeat what they hear on the conservative media.

For example: WAtidefan should listen to the Europeans we were creating the missile defense plan for. They didn’t want it. Poland and the Czech Republic wanted the project and the $350 billion is would transfer from American tax payers to them. The core countries of Germany, France and the Netherlands never did want the project. What they have asked for is America to consult them and stop going off on programs by themselves. Sharing information must be a 2 way street. Conservatives want to balance the budget (all of a second anyway). Here is $350 billion to put to the cause.

Posted by Patrick (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 2:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LA
1) The trickle down economic policy and lack of government oversight drove our monetary system to the brink of collapse. Finally even the Bush boys had to act and created the stimulus spending package last fall. The current administration has done a good job of implementing the stimulus and we have come out of the recession faster than I expected.
2) The debate we needed on healthcare has begun. What did the Bush boys do to provide affordable, quality healthcare for every citizen? In 2003 Bush said he wanted quality healthcare available for every Iraq citizen. How about Americans. Do you not think we need reforms or have you got a better idea than those being proposed in Washington? I look forward to your specific ideas.
3) The environmental cap and trade bill is the first attempt to reduce green house gas emissions and force power generators, through economic penalties, to develop methods of power generation other than burning coal, oil, or natural gas. You don’t think we need to reduce green house emissions or do you have a better idea how to achieve the reductions?
4) Simply the election of Obama was celebrated around the world. When the previous administration lied about the intelligence to justify attacking Iraq, and then nearly unilaterally attack Iraq, most of our European allies bailed on the USA. The cooperation was further eroded by the creation of torture camps and holding people for years without trials or even charges. The ‘I am to important to talk to you attitude’ exhibited by the administration toward some nations also scared our allies. Now when I go to Europe they don’t expect me to apologize for my government.
5) This problem is yet to be addressed. It was discussed in 2004 with Senator Shelby at a town meeting in Andalusia but no realistic solutions provided by the Bush boys. Remember they said give the money to the investment bankers and they would make the fund solvent. This is the opportunity for conservatives to make suggestions before the moderates propose a solution.
6) I hope Obama will address this one before he leaves office. Clinton had it balanced but Bush managed to doubled the debt with his stupid policies and Iraq war.

What does OBAMA….HE… mean? I expected you to write some ideas not more negative nothings.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 5:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick: Your post was addressed to the wrong person. WAtidefan asked for your specfics.
As for me writing Obama....HE... that was simply my way of saying, I can't think of anything positive Obama has done!
Patrick I do not question your patriotism. I honor you for your service. We can disagree on politics, but you will always have my respect for your service!

Watidefan: I am looking forward to your response to Patrick's "specifics".

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 6:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick: True conservatives will always want a balanced budget, but every republican is no more a conservative than every democrat is a left wing liberal. Thank you for your service!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick: If you will review my previous posts, specifically Aug.22 2:03 p.m, you will find that I did offer ideas, yet no response came from a democrat.

Posted by Patrick (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LA
Copy me with the post you said you made on Aug 22.

Posted by Patrick (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 11:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have yet to hear what the conservatives want in healthcare reform. Enlighten me!!

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I very much enjoyed reading the comments of "realist." I appreciate his sharing his insights with us.

Like realist, I am sick and tired of faux patriots who wrap themselves in the flag, and then send others off to die (yes, L.A., I'm talking about you).

Rep. Bobby Not-so-Bright said: "General McChrystal reiterated to us what he told to the president: the situation in Afghanistan is serious, but success is possible with the right strategy and commitment." But, the good Congressman never told us what "success" meant and how we know we have finally reached it.

We have had military plans for many years to occupy the Middle East and exercise our dominion over it and its resources. Clearly our invasion of Iraq was uncalled for, and it is highly questionable whether we needed to invade Afghanistan and now occupy that country for 7 years in order to retaliate for 9/11. There were certainly other ways to bring those who planned and supported the terrorist attack of 9/11 to justice. Invading entire countries, harming people who had nothing to do with the attacks against us, only insured more anti-Americanism and blowback in the future.

Throughout history, Afghanistan has been where empires go to die. The Roman Empire was first, then the Ottomans, the British, and the Russians. What makes Rep. Bright think the American Empire is not next?

The Pentagon needs a war to justify its budget and influence over our government and its foreign policy. Industry needs a war so that it can continue manufacturing and selling arms and ammunition. The right-wing needs a war so that it can distract people from the issues of social needs and social justice, and have them concentrate on exuberant nationalism and xenophobia. Who doesn't need war are the young men and women in America who are called up to sacrifice their lives and limbs for this senseless foreign and military policy.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 12:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick: Click on my name, on any post on this page, and it will take you to the archives holding my posts. There are 25 pages or so. Start looking on page 4 or beyond until you get to the Aug 22 date. There you will find my suggestions for health care reform, written close to a month ago. Hope this helps. :)

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 2:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Estragon: I have yet to send one person to die, so you are not directing your nonsensical comment appropriately! You can give all the military "historical" data you can find on your much touted Wikipedia site. All you do is regurgitate what you read and not what you live! I doubt you have any idea about how or where the rubber meets the road concerning anything about the military! I have a 10 year old grandson who knows more about where the rubber meets the road and has sacrificed more for the military than you could ever hope for in this life! If you want to highlight a "faux" patriot, start with your president. He is the poster person for Faux Patriot. So, don't ramble with your slanted babble or attempt to smear those of us who truly do love America! You say Right Wingers need a war for distraction. Well, Estragon, you finally nailed us! I love all the wars and right wing missions over the past few decades!! You remember that RIGHT WING mission resulting in the Bay of Pigs fiasco... Oh, that's right THAT was a DEMOCRATIC mission! OK, how about the right wing's decisions that developed NO intel that lead to TET of '68. OOP'S that was LEFT WING ineptness! And only by the grace of God were the Americans not annihilated! OK, the right wing Operation Eagle Claw debacle, OH NO, again, I forgot, another DEMOCRATIC bungle, thank you very much Jimmy (the irrelevent) Carter! Yea, I've got it this time! Right wing Mogadishu fiasco....oh drats....yet ANOTHER DEMOCRATIC stroke of STUPIDITY compliments Clinton!! Now Estragon, that is one mission you can really yak about regarding strategy and commitment! Those soldiers really didn't need that, now did they?? But I must give kudos to a few REPUBLICAN decisions!! President Reagan for helping bring down the Berlin Wall, lighting up Quaddafi's tent and causing him to keep his mouth shut for quarter of a century, the day Saddam Hussein was pulled out of a rat hole and my all time favorite is when the US fighter jets forced the landing of a commercial airliner and yanked a terrorist into US custody!!! Now THAT was social justice!!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick: As an add on regarding health care reform, I strongly support tort reform also!

Posted by realist (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Right wing Mogadishu fiasco....oh drats....yet ANOTHER DEMOCRATIC stroke of STUPIDITY compliments Clinton!! Now Estragon, that is one mission you can really yak about regarding strategy and commitment! Those soldiers really didn't need that, now did they??"

"If you think it is "empty rhetoric" for me to stand firm for my belief that NO military life lost on the battlefield is wasted, then you are one misguided individual."

According to your own logic they should have been happy to die for their country.

Before you attack me for my political affiliation, please note I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican and I think administrations from both parties have made terrible military decisions through history.

Posted by alabamachris (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick, I wasn’t going to get back into this discussion again but with your Sep.17 4:10 post I just have to respond. Ok, I accept the fact that you are a Bush hating liberal but that does not allow you to distort the facts.
1. You say Obama got us out of the Bush recession. Over 500,000 new people signed up for first-time unemployment last month. I don’t think any of them would agree that we are out of a recession. You are out of a recession after 3 months of growth in a row and we have not had one, guess you forgot that fact. Oh yeah, Bush got us out of the Clinton recession while recovering from the 9/11 attacks and fighting 2 wars.
2. Reforming healthcare so it is cheaper. Let’s just look at the “Cheapest” bill coming in at $855Trillion bucks. Then there are the 47million uninsured, high-ball number even counts illegals and the 6million that have chosen NOT to buy their company offered insurance. So if you divided the number of uninsured, 47 million, into the cost of the new program $855Trillion, well could you do that for me as my calculator does not work with numbers that big. I’ll be it is a bunch thou. Oh wait, before you start dividing subtract the $10Billion our government is giving to the healthcare providers union retirement fund since that money is not going to provide healthcare to anyone.
3. New energy policy: Replace US made light bulbs with Chinese made CFL’s. But wait a few years and see how much we are going to be spending cleaning up the toxic waste dumps that are currently just waste dumps because you and millions of other have not read the disposition requirements for the CFL. You have to turn them in at a disposal site—not throw them in your trash. Do you know anyone that will turn them in? I don’t. If you could tell me when we have been drilling for the past 8 years I would like to know. I would like to use nuclear power but wait, the Democratic congress has cut the funding to the nuclear waste disposal sight in the desert leaving the existing nuclear power plants to store their waste on site. Great Job Congress. They did this even while those nuclear power plants were paying the government 1%, or around 80Billion dollars, to create a storage facility for that waste. Love your new energy plan.
4. Mend world relationships. I don’t think going on the World Apology Tour counts as mending world relations. I am no expert so I could be wrong. I am not sure Israel is really happy with us now since we apologized to the Palestinians for Israel’s aggression. I’m sure it was unwarranted after all they had only been missile targets for what 3-4 years before they responded with force. Not sure about the Czech Republic or Poland at the moment either—they sort of hoped for the missile defense systems. But hey, I’m sure Russia will help us now.
Continued in next post.

Posted by alabamachris (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

5. Shore up SS: WHAT? Medicare/Medicade=37Trillion underfunded and he is going to fix healthcare by taking $500Million more out of it and again what has he done or going to do to fix SS?
6. Balance the Budget: You have got to be kidding. You really do need FOX to get a bit of truth and facts in your life. The projected budget deficit for this year alone is $1.2Trillion and is projected to be over $2Trillion next year. Obama has spent more money in his first 8 months then all previous presidents spent combined.
7. The Democratic Congress put us in the financial pickle we are presently in with their reckless rule changes. They allowed and encouraged lending institutes to loan money to everyone that came through the door because everyone deserves to live the American dream of owning a home. I guess they forgot one minor issue, while lending all that money, and that is a lot of those folks simply could not normally qualify or ever afford the loans they were given. Those loans ended up in the hands of Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae and eventually into the debt to the tune of, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it is in the neighborhood of $3.7Trillion bucks. Thanks Congress.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

realist: First of all, keep your talking points straight; I have not attacked you for your party affiliation. I belong to neither party, I am a conservative. However, I am definitely aligned closer to Republicans and Libertarians. It is your words that are of concern, not your party affiliation! You have it wrong again attempting to twist words! I have never said any military person is "happy" to die for their country. I said they are willing to die for their country. That is a big difference!!The fiasco in Mogadishu was caused by Clinton's failure to properly support the Ranger TF. He denied to them such assets as M2 Bradley's or M1 Abrams and failed to authorize sufficient numbers of troops! NOT ONE American life was wasted in Mogadishu either! They were all volunteers and every Ranger/Special Forces hero was doing what they WANTED to do and lived and breathed to do.....fight for the mission given to them by their country...even if the mission was flawed! "Theirs was NOT to question why.......". Their breed is what separates the boys from the real men! They are heroes and I admire their bravery and honor their memory!

Posted by Estragon (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Once again, I have to agree with Realist. Both Democratic and Republican administrations have made terrible military and foreign policy decisions. This has been especially true in the period since WWII when we attempted to step into the imperial shoes of the British and French. Having been left bankrupt by WWII, both Britain and France did not have the financial or military ability to hold on to their colonies in the face of indigenous nationalist/populist movements. Our foreign policy leaders feared these movements would advance the spread of communism, a conclusion that history has proven false, and this policy of American-Imperialism-to-Stop-Communism was pursued in a bipartisan fashion.

In large measure, both political parties in the U.S. are wings of the same capitalist system. And, in the final analysis, it is the Pentagon, not the White House, that has the ultimate say on matters of defense and foreign affairs. If you don't believe me, ask President Clinton who made a solemn promise to the gay community that if elected President he would lift the ban on gays in the military. After Clinton's election, the Joint Chiefs of Staff would not agree to this change in policy, forcing Clinton to back down. As a result, Clinton worked out a compromise, the "don't ask/don't tell" policy, which he thought would be at least half-a-loaf, but instead has been a disaster to those he promised to support.

If LoyalAmerican would take off her extremely partisan Republican blinders and stopped patting her backside, she would have seen in my comments that I am objecting to Obama's policy in Afghanistan despite the fact that I voted for him and still think he was the better of the choices we had. I am an American first, and a Democrat second.

Posted by iamabookworm (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LA: I swear to GAWD if I read that "rubber meets the road" comment one more time, I'm going to throw up. I was thinking today that you had a very myopic view of the world, arguing with someone like you is a waste of time. Example: You ASSUME even though I have never said such a thing that because I support many of President Obama's policies that I must have and I quote a “glowing” view of him. Not true, though I did in fact vote for him there are many matters on which I disagree with him. I bet if someone said “President Obama said the sky is blue” you would try your best to refute it just because HE said it was so. Yesterday the things you posted to Realist were beyond the pale. You don't seem very feminine so I'll speak macho male to you: You wanted to get into a **** measuring contest with him over career vs non career military. You just came off like a big jerk. Previously you wanted me to prove my generosity to others by listing all of my altruistic activities. I don't feel the need to do that here with you, my conscious is clear, I ALWAYS try to help people whenever I can. For us liberal people it's nothing special, it's just a way of life. Something that is done without especially thinking about it or keeping tally like you seem to do.

Here is something that I read about myopic people that fits you to a tee. Myopic people often have elaborate belief structures that may seem logically very correct but were in fact completely wrong.......in myopia we can observe that myopes have great difficulty seeing another persons point of view.....they lack empathy.....are opinionated.....hostile...close minded....rigid in their thinking......narrow minded...shortsighted in their points of view...and essentially fearful of the consequences of others points of view, as if this point of view was of great threat to them.

If I seem as if I am less well behaved than usual I guess you can attribute that to extreme frustration that I feel with the way things in this nation are going. I was so ashamed when I heard about the teaparty group from Montgomery who went by Joe Wilson's Washington D.C. Office to offer their support. I remember you saying that you were going to Washington and wondered if you were among those people, probably. There was a time when maybe I didn't agree with you, but I could find some respect for your point of view, as I have continued to read your postings over the past few months that is no longer the case. You just seem like a deranged woman, and whether you want my pity or not you have it.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 5:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Alabamachris: You did an artful job in answering the 7! Progressives always leave off the critical points.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 6:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick: the 7 points: the only thing I can see that Obama has accomplished is this: WAtidefan's quotes of Japanese Admiral Yamamoto after bombing Pearl Harbor, "I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with terrible resolve."
Obama has awakened the American people. Can he put everyone opposing him in jail, like they do in Russia and Iran? Patrick, Iamab, Estro, Realist, you are standing on sifting sands. We are standing on the truth as it unfolds.

Posted by alabamachris (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 6:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick, I have just read through all the posts on this thread and saw where you asked if I agreed that we should replace both Senators now. I have no problem with replacing everyone in Washington each election cycle. I like and respect Rep Bright. I have written him emails on several occasions and received applicable responses. In fact on one occasion his local office even called me with a response. The things I like about him:
He has assured me he will vote against any sort of gun control--I am a hunter.
He voted against the TARP Bill.
He voted against the Bailout Bill.
He voted against the House Healthcare or was it Insurance Reform Bill.
He has assured me he will vote against any health bill that reduces healthcare to the elderly ie: Medicare.
See, and I bet you never thought we could agree on anything.

Posted by outlaw11 (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 7:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

alabamachris: cudos...your response is the only one that appears to be researched and each of your statements is correct and can be checked, way to go.

Posted by MoreCowBell (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 7:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick: I have yet to hear what the conservatives want in healthcare reform. Enlighten me!!

That would be HR 3400 in which "The One" also refuses to read as well.

Posted by MoreCowBell (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 7:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

imabookworm...are you going to "toss the cookies" where the rubber meets the road? Just wondering.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 7:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bookworm: Grab an emesis basin, you may need it! No doubt you want to throw up when you hear the phrase "where the rubber meets the road". To me that phrase means; THIS is where the truth begins or can be found. I am sorry that anything I hold to be true makes you ill. No, I don't have a narrow view of the world, but I do look at a lot of the world in black and white. Steady folks, that is not a racist comment. What I mean by that is I believe right is right and wrong is wrong. For example; If I were a policewoman and my brother came speeding by. I think the natural instinct for a sibling would be to overlook or cut him slack. My response would be to ticket him just as I would ticket anyone. That way you don't run the risk later, having to justify anything or make allowances for others! I suppose that proves I am all about equality. No, myopic does not fit me. I am very detailed oriented, I think a lot about what the future holds, I do value the opinions of those whom I respect, I have tons of empathy. However, I am opinionated, I can be hostile (just as you are), believe it or not I am openminded, my children can vouch for that! No subject has ever been taboo, I have no fear whatsoever of your opinions or those of any others. Not having your respect is of no consequence to me because of the source. If you have such a problem, skip over anything I post. The word "glowing" was my choice, not yours. If you do not think Obama glows, then I apologize to you for thinking you do. If Obama said the sky is blue, I will rejoice because I know he is telling the truth for once! If you think what I said to Realist was beyond the pale, that is your opinion. If you think I am a jerk because I take offense when someone discounts the sacrifice of a human, there again, that is your right and priviledge to have those thoughts. You speak of your apparent altruistic qualities, yet your distain for me and my beliefs leads me to believe your altruism is offered but to one segment of society. So much for devotion to mankind! In closing, I would like for you to interpret the meaning of " **** measurement". I AM a bit on the feminine side, I do like manicured hands and perdicured feet and fashionable clothing. I love flowers and parfume. So what is meant by **** dear LADY?

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 7:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

alabamachris: Great post on the 7 points!

Posted by Patrick (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 8:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LA
I did look up your post. Thank you for helping me to go there. I like any and all of your suggestions. The most likely bill is no where near as generous to the citizens as your suggested choices. Basically $10,000/year out of pocket per family and $5,000/year out of pocket per individual. I am not clear if this included the mandatory insurance cost or not. The government would provide a credit to help those who couldn't afford the annual cost.
I like your ideas better, but don't know if the cost would be greater. I praise the Obama administration for getting the ball rolling. It should have been addresses 20 years earlier.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 8:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican, Rgodwin, Alabamchris: Many posts of condolences for Sgt. Robert David Gordon II, U.S. Army soldier. A true American hero. God rest his soul.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 8:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Patrick: That plan is very close to what we pay for Congress to have. It is very similar to want military families are able to have. If congress and the president would come together for the good of all and do what is needed to stop rising drug prices, implement tort reform, cut out the fraud, waste and abuse they already admit to, ensure insurance portability, and refuse to allow insurance companies to claim preexisting conditions as and excuse not to insure, and exclude illegals, we could have decent coverage for all Americans. It is a no brainer!

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 9:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: I loved your 7:39pm post. You are truly a lady of class! Sometimes I have to look up certain words you use because my vocabulary isn't nearly as extensive is yours, but it's always more of a pleasure than a chore. You think a lot like me. You're just much more eloquent.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 9:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks rgodwin: They are worming their way out of the woodwork today.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 10:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

alabamachris: your post on the 7 points was really great. I had started reading it earlier and had to leave, so I reread the whole thing when I got back. Great job.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 10:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: yes, I've been amusing myself by attempting to understand some of it. Trying to make sense of much of it is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. LoyalAmerican, I am a registered Republican, but I'm 100% a proud conservative and will never apologize for being so. I believe conservatism is right, because it is based on christian values and anything else can't come close when it comes to truth. I also know that in Alabama we are fortunate to have the representation we have in Washington, but I'm still for cleaning house of them all and starting over. I would love to see a limit of 2 terms, not to exceed 12 years and congressmens checks should stop the day they all leave office. I'll never understand how they could possibly be so arrogant to think that the taxpayers should pay them for life.

Posted by bluecollarguy (anonymous) on September 18, 2009 at 11:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Andalusia, Straughn, Florala, and Pleasant Home all lost their football games tonite....

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on September 19, 2009 at 12:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow! Thanks to alabamachris for the great response to Patrick. That's what I get for having a job and not having time to post.
I would add one thing about Obama's great mending of relationships. It seems that Obama isn't totally scraping the missile defense system. There will be a system just not the one President Bush promised. How was the decision made for Obama's system? Recommendations by Defense Sec. Gates. You know, the same Sec. of Defense that advised President Bush. Let's see... Bush listens to Gates and Bush is a village idiot. Obama listens to Gates and Obama is a genius at international affairs. I don't think so.
As far as apologizing to Europe. What do we have to apologize for?
Patrick, you head on over the pond and apologize all you want. It has always amazed me that we are supposedly hated the world over yet millions come here legally and illegally each year. If we are so darn bad, why come? Who does everybody on the face of God's green earth cry out to every time there is a natural disaster? America. Earthquakes, tsunami, monsoon, flu epidemics, you name and they expect America to send not only money but personnel, too. Maybe, just maybe we should be the selfish, egocentric, self serving, people "they" say we are and kick all of them to the curb. Maybe we should bring all the troops home from Afghanistan and Iraq and put them on our Nothern and Southern border and stop the masses from invading our nation. While we are at it, let's stop all foreign aid. Even to Israel (and I am a big fan of Israel). Oh, yes, get out of the UN. Put everyone of the UN ambassadors on planes and send their sorry butts home. Fumigate the buildings to make sure none of the vermin are hiding out.
(continued)

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on September 19, 2009 at 12:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

(continued) I have calmed down and would just like to thank LoyalAmerican, rgodwin, alabamachris, MoreCowBell and other conservatives for remaining rational while I went off on a tangent. After reading through the comments again, I see that the usually suspects have made personal attacks. We can always count on them for that.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on September 19, 2009 at 1:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WAtidefan: thanks for a great post and glad you're back. I don't really believe these countries or at least most of them hate America. I believe most of them are just jealous of America for our freedoms and our way of life, but if Obama and his administration isn't stopped soon, there will not be anything left to be jealous of. I also agree with you 110% on kicking the UN's sorry butts totally out of the US. There wouldn't be a UN if it wasn't for the money supplied by the US and these idiots truly do hate America. I'll guarantee you that the money the US waste on the UN would go a long way to helping the needy with health care.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 19, 2009 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

United Nations! they are also the Ones that deny God, our Creator and Sustainer, and are preparing us for the godless One World Order and 'Religion' - Pantheism. But wait.

I think it is extremely important to read the words of the Founder of Green Cross International, Mikhail Gorbachev. (all emphasis mine)

"We need a radical turnaround in our thinking, one that is global, historically long-lasting, and HUMANIST in the fullest and truest sense of the word."..."a new approach to the BASIC way of life and FORMS OF BEHAVIOR of human beings in today's world."

In 1995, to the San Francisco Chronicle: "We need a new information code that will affect the press and the information systems... It is necessary, to find roads leading to a NEW CIVILIZATION...Few people in the world are ready for the PROFOUND FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES required for the CREATION of this civilization."

"I, suggested to the United Nations that they strengthen the organization's ENVIRONMENTAL BODIES, AND CREATE AN ECONOMIC BODY TO OVERSEE THE WORLD OF FINANCE."

"What is important is that everyone must pursue the common goals: a genunine renewal of the life of the entire world community in order to arrive at new conditions of existence for the human race." What he is talking about here is a new, nature-centered morality.

"The values of the Western world are becoming more and more anachronistic. Their Golden Age is in the past; they cannot assure a dependable future for the human race...we MUST DIRECT SOCIETY to a path consistent with the interest of both humanity and the REST OF NATURE."

"At the same time, we must begin to DEFINE certain moral maxims and ETHICAL COMMANDMENTS that constitute values common to all humankind. It is my view that the individual's ATTITUDE toward nature must become one of the principal criteria for ensuring the maintenance of MORALTY."(!)

Gorbachev's 2004 call for a new world order that will be based on strong adherence to INTERNATIONAL LAW...a New Order he is advancing should also rely heavily on the United Nations. 2008 in Davos, to rid the world of poverty, Bill Gates recommends Corporations and Businesses join a "new creative capitalism".

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on September 19, 2009 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I received and email this morning titled Require Reading For Every American and want to share it here. It was written by a black female syndicated columnist.

Six years ago I wrote a book called Uncle Sam's Plantation. I wrote the book to tell my own story of what I saw living inside the welfare state and my own transformation out of it.

I said in that book that indeed there are two Americas -- a poor America on socialism and a wealthy America on capitalism.

I talked about government programs like Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), Job Opportunities and Basic Skills Training (JOBS), Emergency Assistance to Needy Families with Children (EANF), Section 8 Housing, and Food Stamps.

A vast sea of perhaps well-intentioned government programs, all initially set into motion in the 1960s, that were going to lift the nation's poor out of poverty.

A benevolent Uncle Sam welcomed mostly poor black Americans onto the government plantation. Those who accepted the invitation switched mind sets from "How do I take care of myself?" to "What do I have to do to stay on the plantation?"

Instead of solving economic problems, government welfare socialism created monstrous moral and spiritual problems -- the kind of problems that are inevitable when individuals turn responsibility for their lives over to others.

The legacy of American socialism is our blighted inner cities, dysfunctional inner city schools, and broken black families.

Through God's grace, I found my way out. It was then that I understood what freedom meant and how great this country is.

I had the privilege of working on welfare reform in 1996, passed by a Republican Congress and signed 50 percent.

I thought we were on the road to moving socialism out of our poor black communities and replacing it with wealth- producing American capitalism.

But, incredibly, we are going in the opposite direction.

Instead of poor America on socialism becoming more like rich American on capitalism, rich America on capitalism is becoming like poor America on socialism.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on September 19, 2009 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Continued"

Uncle Sam has welcomed our banks onto the plantation and they have said, "Thank you, Suh."

Now, instead of thinking about what creative things need to be done to serve customers, they are thinking about what they have to tell Massah in order to get their cash.

There is some kind of irony that this is all happening under our first black president on the 200th anniversary of the birthday of Abraham Lincoln.

Worse, socialism seems to be the element of our new young president. And maybe even more troubling, our corporate executives seem happy to move onto the plantation.

In an op-ed on the opinion page of the Washington Post, Mr. Obama is clear that the goal of his trillion dollar spending plan is much more than short term economic stimulus.

"This plan is more than a prescription for short-term spending -- it's a strategy for America 's long-term growth and opportunity in areas such as renewable energy, healthcare, and education."

Perhaps more incredibly, Obama seems to think that government taking over an economy is a new idea. Or that massive growth in government can take place "with unprecedented transparency and accountability."

Yes, sir, we heard it from Jimmy Carter when he created the Department of Energy, the SynfuelsCorporation, and the Department of Education.

Or how about the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964 -- The War on Poverty -- which President Johnson said "...does not merely expand old programs or improve what is already being done. It charts a new course. It strikes at the causes, not just the consequences of poverty."

Trillions of dollars later, black poverty is the same. But black families are not, with triple the incidence of single-parent homes and out-of-wedlock births.

It's not complicated. Americans can accept Barack Obama's invitation to move onto the plantation. Or they can choose personal responsibility and freedom.

Does anyone really need to think about what the choice should be?

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 19, 2009 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This information may be valuable in assessing Gorby's plans to run for a high position in Russia this coming year, and why our Progressive President has made a shocking move to accommodate the Soviets, without Congress knowing - if they knew, we were not alerted.

Gorbachev's Green Cross has announced their founder as the "Last Remaining Global Leader", a man with a still-unfulfilled destiny. I think we should take careful notice of this.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 19, 2009 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rgodwin: I adore Star Parker!! She totally rocks! All her books are worthwhile reading! She is one fabulous lady who KNOWS where the truth begins!

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 19, 2009 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Your 10:03 post rgodwin, is remarkable and brilliant! Thank you so much for sending us this email.

Posted by WAtidefan (anonymous) on September 19, 2009 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, yes, and yes! Star Parker is definitely a star. I haven't read this particular book, but frequently read her commentary.

Posted by rgodwin (anonymous) on September 19, 2009 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Have a good day everyone. I'm going to get out and enjoy some of the freedoms that we still have, while they're still free!

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 19, 2009 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: I found Sir Patrick to be in bed with Iamab and estro. Slander in my book is a sin of Detraction. He blogs on Civility by Justin, and is guilty of the very same accusation and does'nt even know it!

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 21, 2009 at 7:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: Good Morning.
What in heaven's name is going on in Afghan. and no troops being sent to assist. McChrystal is once again asking for 240,000 troops and Obama wants to wait 6 weeks!

Please explain to us what is going on.
Best thoughts.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 21, 2009 at 3:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Obama has spoken: He does not want to send troops to Afghan. for politics of the day, and 2nd he wants to be sure troops are sent for the right reason, because he has to answer to the parents of these troops!

LoyalAmerican you are so right to say this man is an idot. He is incapable of leading a Boy Scout Troop!

He wants his handlers to tell him what is the right thing to do in Afghan!!!

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 21, 2009 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

May we return to Afghanistan/Bright opinion - Obama has spoken again.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 21, 2009 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Emanual wants Obama out of Afghanistan so they will probably raise the white flag of surrender. Then we can wait for the next terrorist attack. If it comes, in my opinion, it will come on Obama's watch. The terrorists know he is weak and will not fight back!

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 21, 2009 at 8:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Loyal: What you say makes sense and explains his hemming and hawing. Does your son know of any of this. Are they telling the men more troops are on the way, or are they leaving them in the dark about the politics. I want to think your boy knows what they're up against. What a Crime! I want you to know, I am praying for them.

Posted by winkie (anonymous) on September 22, 2009 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My oldest Granson is on standby for Afgh. I am always in constent prayer for our Military. If we are going to win we need a surge, but if Obama is playing War, then bring our Men home.If Obama was really an American instead of Arab he could stop this war.But hes all about Change... you never know which way hes going.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 22, 2009 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, Winkie - we sure have a good idea of that direction now, don't we.

Your Grandson may know Loyal's Son. I have been praying for all those boys and will continue. This can end up very badly for us, while Obama fangles his way around it to save his sorry hide.
He's not even a good Liar and is becoming more transparent to us as each day goes by - no grit showing so far.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 22, 2009 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Justwingit: If my memory serves me, didn't you say you had copies of 2 Times mags with B.O's face as the front cover? Can you describe that to us again, and give dates of copies?
(I just realized, B.O. stands for body odor, Barrack Obama and Blind Ones. LOL by accident! TTLY, and BTW, I like the way you think too.

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 22, 2009 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

winkie: Please tell your grandson we appreciate his service to America. We will add him to our growing prayer list!
My jaw dropped when Obama stated he, "has to determine what is the best strategy before he sends additional troops to Afghanistan." He speaks as though he has a clue! What does he know about military strategy? Nada, zilch, null! Gen McChrystal earned his stars because he is a tactician, a military minded strategist, a can do type of guy. Obama placed Gen McChrystal in charge of winning Afghanistan, so he must have had faith in McC's ability. We have to go into Afghanistan with everything we have militarily. Lessons from Viet Nam apparently were not learned. You can not send troops to fight with one hand tied behind their back, as was the case in Viet Nam. Our technology has advanced a thousand fold in the last 40 plus years. We have a weapons arsenal that can make Afghanistan a place the Taliban and Al Qaeda would prefer NOT to be. Incremental troop additions only allows the Taliban and Al Qaeda to adjust. Send in massive troops and overwhelm the saps and be done! Obama is listening to the far left wing of the Democratic party, rather than the guys with boots on the ground in Afghanistan. Everyone needs to contact Bright, Sessions and Shelby and ask them to speak out for winning this war by going full throttle and then bring our military men and women home!

Posted by Anne (anonymous) on September 22, 2009 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dear people: If anyone wants to know what the future holds for countries that have been usurped by communists through fraudulent elections in this part of the world, one has only to watch the Catholic country of Venezuela today!

Christians do not think like atheists, in fact, they have trouble imagining human beings harboring such hatred for God and His children within them.

We cannot be NAIVE any longer! by wishfully thinking we can overcome our own country's takeover by Communists and their counterparts that have moled their way into our schools and society and government.

I saw Hugo Chavez on the news today, with his bold, in your face Arrogance, telling the Catholic School Students he is teaching them Socialism from the 1st grade to university! They had better like it or else! Now we see parents and grandparents, Christians of all walks of life in the streets, right now, revolting against this tyranny!

Sooner than later, I am afraid we will see on the news of Bishops, Priests, Pastors and Sisters and lay Christians jailed, tried and murdered. This is the New Century - the media will use this to bring us to our knees in fear.

I will tell you all something you may not know. In Betania, Venezuela lived a mystic and anointed holy woman, Maria Esperanza (there is a website) whom God chose as a messenger as well as healer.
Before she died recently (2004), speaking of this forceful takeover by Communists in the free world, she foretold this: "IT WILL BEGIN HERE."

And that's how quickly it began in Venezuela.

Maria also had a great love for America, and prayed incessantly for US so that we would be that Light for the world against atheistic Communism that God so desires.

Please join a prayer group or start one - this is the foundation for the success of our actions in overcoming this giant.

Posted by justwingit (anonymous) on September 22, 2009 at 2:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Shamrock, That would be 10 Time mag. with his face on it.
1 in Aug. 08, 1 in Sept. 08, 2 in Oct. 08, 3 in Nov. 08, 1 in Jan. 09, 1 in Feb. 09, 1 in May 09. There are probably more but that is all I can find right now. "COLD EYES".
When he was campaigning he said "change" every time he opened his mouth. The people that voted for him were really fooled. The change he was referring to was changing our country from a christian nation to a muslim nation. Go back where you came from. We are one nation under GOD!

Posted by LoyalAmerican (anonymous) on September 22, 2009 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anne: Hopefully Hugo Chavez will develop swine flu. When he does, we will know it returned from whence it came!

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 22, 2009 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LoyalAmerican: Yes. You have given the proper image to this man. As I was looking up the spelling for cocky, I found the noun "cockalorum, self-important little man...leapfrog". It all fits, but doesn't relieve the anxiety I have for this type of person.

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 22, 2009 at 4:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks justwingit: I hope that didn't impose too much on your time. Those Cold Eyes tell alot - the windows to the soul.

And thanks Anne. I am catholic and it makes me sick to see what's happened in that country. We had 2 young missionaries from Maracaibo here in our county some years back and I had the privilege of driving them to Dothan, Mtgy., and Tuscaloosa for their ministry. I'll never forget them and how they impacted our entire family. I FELT the presence of Christ around them!

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 23, 2009 at 8:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Just off the wire: "Turkey stand at Iran's side".

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 23, 2009 at 8:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

From what I read last night: by Sreeram Chaulia www.atimes.com

"Netanyahu's been walking on pins and needles, trying to juggle Washington's demands to halt settlements..Why did he travel secretly to Moscow to meet with Putin and Medvedev?

"The answer lies in the mounting mutual DISTRUST between Israel and its longtime special ally, the United States, over restarting peace talks with the Palestianians. Since the Barack Obama administration has taken charge in Washington, unprecedented pressure has been applied on Israel to completely halt Jewish settlement construction in the West Bank and Jerusalem...

"For decades, Israel had a single vector foreign policy towards great powers, banking on total diplomatic and military cooperation of the U.S. But with relations with Washington at an all-time nadir, Tel Aviv is forced to seek new powerful friends like Russia...

"Since Moscow continues to contest Washington in every theater - from Latin America and Central Asia to the Middle East - Netanyahu could be probing an opening to Russia that the U.S. would not take lightly...

"Netanyahu's decision to hoodwink his own public and media and fly in person to Russia on Sept. 7th, must be understood in light of Israel's current paranoia about American policies in the Middle East."

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 23, 2009 at 8:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

After all the fun on Civility, I want to post this serious business here.
Sept. 12th Edict from Iran's Pres. Mah. Ahmadinejad. "He has ordered replacement of the U.S. dollar by the euro in the country's foreign exchange accounts.

Iran called on other OPEC members to ditch the sinking $ in favor of the more credible euro. The interest rate for the facilities provided from the Foreign Exchange Reserves will be reduced from 12% to 5%.

The euro has gained popularity internationaly and there are now more euros in circulations than the dollar. The move will help decouple Iran from the U.S. banking system."

This sounds like propaganda from Iran and Soviet Russia. Say it, then it is so?

Posted by Shamrock (anonymous) on September 23, 2009 at 8:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My friend in Manhattan says that her Euros are at $1.48!!! When it get to $2, she will open French Champagne!!
Guess i was wrong about propaganda, other than promoting this for others.